this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023
58 points (98.3% liked)
askchapo
22740 readers
222 users here now
Ask Hexbear is the place to ask and answer ~~thought-provoking~~ questions.
Rules:
-
Posts must ask a question.
-
If the question asked is serious, answer seriously.
-
Questions where you want to learn more about socialism are allowed, but questions in bad faith are not.
-
Try [email protected] if you're having questions about regarding moderation, site policy, the site itself, development, volunteering or the mod team.
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
so until the 1800s the Europeans were not actually militarily advantaged over asia/the middle east. 1500s-1700s it was always a pretty close run affair, and the imperial outposts relatively small. european naval vessels were relatively well-armed and nice, but other nations weren't unable to field reasonable equivalents. this early period of colonial conquests were fueled mostly by the looting of america, small-on-the-map european countries could outspend you, even if their soldiers weren't much better armed. i'm not counting america because it's really difficult to win wars against smallpox
but once the europeans have the steamship its joever. motherfuckers moving against the wind, faster than any boats before slipping troops places and bombarding shit nobody thought possible with blinding speed. from a european perspective, seeing the steady progression and failings it's a bit less dramatic, but for an asian nation one day the barbarians showed up with these things in a world that only knows wind and oar power. and the engineering to make your own relies on a bunch of ground-based shit you don't have yet either
as to why europeans got the steamship, that's from the development of capitalism and the looting of america
A large part of the British conquest of India was accomplished prior to the launch of the first sea-going steamships, by frequently heavily outnumbered armies (even accounting for local auxiliaries).
Divide and conquer played a large part, but also the social & financial institutions built in the West to outfit and keep a unified presence in India that was not vulnerable to its own tactics.
90% of the British army was also made up of Indian soldiers before they colonized India
bc the brits were rich
Thank you for that perspective, I didn't realize steampower was that dramatic, but you framed it well.
even in the first opium war a british and qing infantryman were relatively the same technologically, both just dudes with muskets (the Qing military was really declining at the time and their best troops were on the borders, which is why they sucked in the actual engagements), but the steamers ran roughshod over the navy & supported the infantry, which didn't operate very far away from shore.
That’s fascinating, is there a book you read in particular that covered this well?
lol almost all the Qing stuff i've read is from the resident Qing-head on askhistorians. it's not a particular interest of mine, but here's a thread they did on the opium war with a meaty bibliography
A Reddit link was detected in your comment. Here are links to the same location on Teddit and Libreddit, which are Reddit frontends that protect your privacy.
🤖 🔥
What a good bot
Steam power is insane outside of boating. Before all the work in your society must come from potential energy stored in food. After steam you could get free work out of rocks.
i hate to be a pedant but wind and water were also good power sources prior to steam
True but they couldn't scale on-demand as steam can. Still can't, but energy storage is the solution now.