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Europe would do well to become military self-sufficient. Of course once they are, there's not much reason to keep US forces in their territory either, so I'm not sure how much the US really wants that.
The idea that Europe isn't militarily self-sufficient is, frankly, horseshit. The US just has such an incredibly outsized military that anything will look "insufficient"
We can't supply Ukraine with enough weapons... or even munitions, as the self-pledged 1mill 155mm shells will be only halfway met (hopefully). The few self-designed combat aircrafts we have are painfully mediocre (Eurofighter, Gripen, Rafale...).
Definitely don't think we would fare any way decently in an actual war without US backing nowadays.
Being able to supply another country with weapons and ammunition while keeping enough stock for your own military is not the definition of a self-sufficient military, though?
If we were able to succesfully do so, I would agree with that. We aren't succeeding in supplying enough to keep Ukraine in the game right now, though.
The point is that having any ammo left over for Ukraine at all -- let alone "enough" -- is literally the definition of more than self-sufficient.
If you use 0 bullets in a hot-war of your own, but can’t provide a wartime amount to another country with the help of allies that means you cannot provide enough for yourself during a true homeland crisis.
Euroland focused too much on social services and allowed their military production capabilities to rust because big daddy USA would always be there with the largest MIC on the planet.
Well, somebody just went to the gas station for cigarettes. Good luck.
Redditor comment
Gripen mediocre?
Do you have facts to back that up?
🤓☝️ source? It doesn't take much reasoning to see that a new 5th generation aircraft first produced in 1987 is quite mediocre compared to the american wizardry that is the f-35. The gripen is a fine 4th generation aircraft, but it is not a 5th gen. Don't get me started about eu engine production as well. We are behind, and we need military funding.
You are both comparing two systems and calling the one that cost 5-7 time less per flight hour mediocre in a discussion where the enemy discussed are recycling hardware from the 50's on the battlefield.
Dudes, Gripen might not be a 5th generation fighter but it clearly outperforms the enemy it was designed to wrestle.
So "mediocre" it's not what I would call Gripen even though I agree that we (Sweden) should spend more on developing a new 5th generation system among other defence systems.
The finnish and swiss did not agree, both concluded that the f-35 would be economally better over the entire lifespan of the planes. Buying a new plane requires you to look further than one month of flying
If this is what makes you conclude the F-35 being a better system, you clearly have idea of what you're talking about. (NOT.)
Arms deals of that magnitude are based more on what politicians see as a chance of getting reelected than what the engineers conclude.
Furthermore, just looking at the specifications and conclude that A is better than B is something people without insight would do.
I recommend this Swedish blog post on the subject that was written 10 years ago: Gripen E vs JSF
Oke whatever dude buy the gripen have fun, I'll gladly buy the f-35. And I'll continue my life without insight haha wtf
No one is surprised.
Ahem, do you know how much fuckery goes on in military arms deals?
It's advertised as a cheap lightweight fighter, it's standout feature being that a minimal amount of crew can operate it in adverse conditions. Which is most useful if you want a peacetime or "guerilla" fighter. There's exactly two countries in Europe - beyond Sweden - that use Gripen, and I do know that in one of them (Hungary) they beat the F16 by basically buying off Orban and his cronies. ...who, ironically enough, are now blocking Sweden's entry into NATO.
I'd think that at least in Europe you'd see more adoption of the plane if it weren't mediocre.
When I asked about you backing your claim I didn't mean you making more claims. We're on the internet, just link to the analysis you are referring to.
Reminds my of when Trump threatened to withdraw troops from Germany to punish them and a high-ranking military officer had to correct him and explain that the American troops are not in Germany to protect Germany but for the benefit of the US in order to support its strategic interests in the region.
Trump seems clueless on these things.
Or anyone else for that matter. Armed Europe has a somewhat violent history.
Yeah, as opposed to any other country with arms which have a totally nonviolent history.
Where is of course the United States has a great history.
You know there's only like 20 years out of America's entire history where it wasn't at war?
Um technically I don’t think we have been at war since WW2
The power of special operations, guess Putin loves America after all
All the boys are using the same playbook, some just have better propaganda.
I don't think this is a good place for technicalities but who am I? Some idiot on the internet.