this post was submitted on 02 May 2024
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Nostalgia

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nostalgia noun nos·tal·gia nä-ˈstal-jə nə-, also nȯ-, nō-; nə-ˈstäl- 1: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition also : something that evokes nostalgia

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cross-posted from: https://lemmit.online/post/2823044

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/nostalgia by /u/Character-Emotion237 on 2024-05-02 22:39:26.

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[–] [email protected] 86 points 3 months ago (8 children)

Yep. It feels weird to be nostalgic for windows 7, but it was honestly not bad. I think the reason why the loss of aero glass feels cold and sterile is because it honestly is. The whole metro/material design thing is just garbage. I don't want buttons that look like abstract squares, I want buttons that look like buttons. What brain-dead designer honestly likes minimal design over skeumorphism?

[–] [email protected] 61 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

I'm no designer (although I might be brain-dead), but I prefer minimalist UI over skeumorphism.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Eh, I was being hyperbolic when I probably shouldn't have been. It just feels very lifeless to me. I understand the arguments for it, it just feels soulless and lifeless.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

It's perfect to reflect the soulless company from wence it spawned.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

But also win 7 had little to do with skeumorphism

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Perhaps could be considered "frosted glass?"

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Frutiger Aero is commonly used to describe it

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

From what I've read, Frutiger Aero is considered to be a form of skeumorphism, or at least skeumorphic-adjacent.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They were trying to unify their desktop and tablet UIs (touch-driven) which itself was fucking stupid since people interact with them totally differently.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

I remember having a Wacom usb tablet at the time, and Windows kept slapping a virtual keyboard in the middle of my screen. It was infuriating, to say the least.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Especially at the time, and even somewhat still today, it saves bandwidth on virtual connections. Some places run thousands of virtual desktops for their users.

I liked Aero better, too

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Skeumorphims is much harder to implement for varying screen sizes and resolutions. When windows 7 was first released the different screen resolutions and sizes was very limited.

I remember Windows was difficult to use if you dual booted it on a retina MacBook. Because it couldn't handle the high pixel density well, many applications couldn't be scaled properly.

Skeumorphism is also much less useful. People needed hints to help them understand what things did on their computer. Many people had limited interactions with computers, now almost everyone uses computers of some form daily (largely smartphones). The remaining skeumorphism can hinder them not help, they have no idea what a floppy disk is or why that would be a save symbol.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago

Not related to your point, but I would argue that computer usage is actually down today compared to when 7 was released, as computer literacy is proving to be more of an issue for generations younger than Millenials entering the workforce compared to generations older than Millenials. And that's because smartphones work differently from laptops and desktops. The UI and how you interact with your phone is fundamentally different enough to make the skills not interchangeable. I worked with kids in their first jobs for a number of years, and many didn't have a computer in their house because they did everything from their phones.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Skeumorphims is much harder to implement for varying screen sizes and resolutions. When windows 7 was first released the different screen resolutions and sizes was very limited.

Skeumorphism can scale, it'd just require procedural generation of assets. Granted, that can be pretty hardware intensive, but you could bake the assets for common screen sizes and include the procedural versions for future resolutions. Then again, you'd probably get people complaining about how their computer is slow for a minute or two after plugging it into a new display (because it's baking new UI assets for the monitor's resolution).

Hmmm...

Skeumorphism is also much less useful. People needed hints to help them understand what things did on their computer. Many people had limited interactions with computers, now almost everyone uses computers of some form daily (largely smartphones). The remaining skeumorphism can hinder them not help, they have no idea what a floppy disk is or why that would be a save symbol.

Yeah, but it's kinda the designer's role to find new ways of visually explaining things to people while updating existing design language to account for changes in technology, culture, etc. If a floppy disk is so outdated that it confuses people when it's used to symbolize saving files, then they need to find a new icon to symbolize that.

Also, to be clear, I'm not against buttons having text labels to go with them (e.g. if the button's function is difficult to convey in an image), I honestly just want buttons to look like buttons. I'm tired of all the abstract, minimalist design. I want things to look "real" again.

Edit: an example of where procedural asset generation is widely, commercially used is video games. Believe it or not, but most game textures nowadays are procedurally generated and then baked/rasterized before being imported into a game engine. Substance Designer and Painter (material creation and texture painting, respectively) both use procedural workflows which allows them to generate textures at practically any resolution without any additional effort. The only reason why you can't tell a game to generate 8k textures is because they're usually baked before being imported into the game engine.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Yep. It feels weird to be nostalgic for windows 7

IMO, not really, since I stuck with it until 2020, and would be on it to this day if it was a sane option. Microsoft knew how to do it right. And then, quite a while ago, they stopped.

Also fuck the people using resolution as an excuse against skeumorphism, when Windows 95 screenshots look just fine today. Monitors are bigger and pixels are smaller and this 16-color garbage still reads clear as day.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 months ago (6 children)

The aero interface was a really good addition, in the early days of it, it sucked because it required alpha blending which wasn't very optimized in graphics cards of the era. So even if it was supported, it ran like shit and ate performance.

I liked Vista. I can still point to examples of stuff in Windows 7 which were broken that worked perfectly fine in Vista. AFAIK, that stuff was never fixed because it was a niche item that most people didn't bother with.

I've been up, down, inside and out of all of these OSes throughout my time in IT, and I can see all the problems. The sidebar/widgets in Vista were a mistake, poorly implemented fluff that consumed too many resources for what they could realistically do. If they were a lot lighter in terms of performance demands, then they would have been fine. Beyond that 7 was basically a reskinned Windows Vista, with some "updates". You could get the same updates for Vista by the time 7 came out, and it made Vista quite reasonable.

IMO, the biggest problem Vista faced wasn't that it was bloated or slow or buggy (though it was very buggy at the beginning - again, mostly fixed with patches by the time 7 landed), it was that Vista was built for the best computers at the time, with the idea that everything would improve to the point where the best computers "today" would become the minimum standard tomorrow. They were right of course, but most people were buying the cheapest HP, Dell, Acer, etc computers they could find with Intel Celeron processors and basically no graphics hardware worth a damn.... They came shipped with Vista and it sucked because you bought a shit PC. The industry was going through a bargain basement type of phase where there were a lot of "discount" CPUs coming out. Before Celeron, you bought an Intel Pentium something or other, and they were all the same. You couldn't get a premium Pentium processor, or a discount Pentium processor.... Celeron was the first foray into what would become Intel atom, or at most the core i3. Intel was looking to expand into the budget households at a time when Microsoft put out their most demanding version of Windows. So people snapped up these Celeron shit boxes pre-installed with Vista and to nobody's surprise, it sucked.

So Microsoft cobbled together a new, somewhat less demanding UI, threw away the widgets, and released the same thing as Windows 7. By the time it hit shelves, most people had figured out (specifically OEMs) that the Celeron wasn't just a cheaper Intel CPU, it was handicapped. So the focus was turned to the core series of CPUs, and away from the hobbled Celeron line.

Look, Celeron had a place, just like Intel Atom. In consumer desktops, is not that place. Something like a point of sale, yeah, that's fine. A glorified web browser or kiosk, sure. All good. A multitasking desktop? Not so much. But OEMs put that shit in everything, and they stopped doing that pretty quickly.

I very successfully ran a core 2 duo system on Vista for a long time in my younger years. 4G of RAM, Nvidia GPU... It worked really well, and I used it for many years. It was even a laptop. I still have it, it still works, but I have more powerful systems, so it's sitting in a protective case and has been untouched for many years at this point. That system was my daily driver for pretty much the entirety of college. I also had a core 2 duo at home, but I spent most of my days on campus with my laptop.

It was excellent.

Yet, everyone praises Windows 7, despite it having features that were non-functional for its entire lifespan, which people either didn't notice, or didn't care that those things didn't work. I don't hate 7. I still think that it's UI and everything was superior over 8/8.1, and that it was a really good OS for average use. As an administrator and a power user, I'm happy on 10. I also used 8/8.1 for a while and though it was functional, it was pretty painful overall. Especially compared to 10.

Don't get me started on W11.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I agree and think the main issue with Vista, as you alluded to, was that Microsoft set the minimum specs far too low and gave companies an excuse to add the absolute minimum bargain basement components, then blame Vista for being slow.

However, if they'd increased the minimum requirements those same companies would have a fit and refuse to ship Vista at all.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

The main issue with Vista was an absolute garbage HAL and driver stack.

It was incapable of working with hardwarw that XP did out of the box. Even if you managed to find a working driver it would likely crash once a day.

Also the active desktop that would always crash leaving you with an IE error page for a wallpaper.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Aero was peak. If I could get Windows 7 with dark mode then I'd bust

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

You can probably create a rice for kde that looks like windows 7 and with built in dark mode :)

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago

Nope, sorry if unpopular, I don't want my buttons round and volumetric. (Classic windows theme user here) Windows 7 worked great tho

[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 months ago

W7 was the last version where I felt like a normal user could have full control. I could do updates once a week without having to worry about setting safe hours. Settings weren't duplicated and scattered across multiple locations and UI styles. As far as I remember there were very few un-uninstallable features, it was the OS and what ever the user wanted. No McAffee demo, Candy Crush, OneDrive, XBox, Spotify, etc.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago (4 children)

DOS->95->98->98SE->XP->7->REGRETREGRETREGRET

My relationship with windows in a nutshell.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

Similar story for me. 3.1 > 98 > 98SE > XP > 7 > regret.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I did love Aero. And Aero Snap was legit useful and remains so. macOS for whatever reason has had trouble implementing what I would now consider an essential feature: at least a basic ability to drag to the side of your screen for some basic tiling (yes... I know later versions have a "tiling" feature, but it is as if they looked at Aero Snap and said "wow, so complicated" and purposefully made it dumb).

Also, just use Linux.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I use Rectangle on my work Mac.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I had good times with windows 7. It felt good.

But my heart was with the tonka-toy hot mess of XP and themed winamp skins.

One of the main reasons I bailed to Linux is that I got so bored of staring at 10s functional but personality-less interface (which struggled even within it's own constraints to provide a useable darkmode and a non-eye-searing bright mode).

And now I have simple, but human. It's like wearing a tailored suit rather than one off the rack, and in this drawn out analogy, I think XP was like having fun in the dress up box at the back of a charity store.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Winamp

Winamp!

Winamp!

It really kicks the lamas ass. ^bbaaeheheh^

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

I ♥️ KDE

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago

Strong agree

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

It was definitely more fun to play with. And easier to modify to your needs.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

Windows 7 was my favorite, but people forget Windows 7 wasn't good on launch either. Aero was just too intensive for the hardware it released on and 7 was a band aid for Vista.

Windows 7 is awesome on modern hardware, but it's too late now.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago

Windows 7 from a usability standpoint was such cancer. But I do 100% miss the aesthetic of the time :(

Also rip the old internet / search engines

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago

Yep, 7 was the last good version of Windows and the GUI is a big part of that.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago

I love 7. It's the last good version of Windows. I didn't use Linux as much during the Win 7 years. Search still sucked though.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

Man, Windows 7 was great. All the excellent parts of Vista (and contrary to popular belief, the were many excellent things about that OS), and none of the nasty. Although that can be somewhat attributed to computing power having caught up by the time 7 was released.

I remember switching from Vista to 7 fulltime as soon as the beta came out. Even then, it was faster and more stable than Vista on the same hardware.

Coincidentally, Windows 7 was around for a whole lot of good times in my life..

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

Windows 2000 was the last version I thought was on the correct path, simply for it being the last version that did not require online activation.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

Microsoft seems to be consistent with every other version being good. Granted they can't count... 3.1, 98, xp, 7, 10, 12...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

I just got this set up in virtualbox and am planning on using jt for things. What things I will find out later.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm one of these people who turn off transparency effects at the earliest convenience. Everything else, fine, but don't go changing even a single pixel of a window because of what's behind it in an unrelated window. It's distracting

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[–] luciferofastora 6 points 3 months ago

It was my last Windows too. I used it until shortly before the end of Extended Support, stubbornly refusing to upgrade.

I had been running Dualboot with Ubuntu for a while, but something bricked my bootloader (I didn't bother investigating just what nor trying to fix it) and I decided the time was as good as any to take the leap and go fully Linux.

I'd love to say I never looked back, but every now and then I'm tinkering to get something to run and think of the days when the question "will it work?" was reserved for complex mod setups in Skyrim. The compatibility tools have gotten a lot better and I've gotten more experienced and confident with them and the system itself, but there are days where I miss the comfort.

Still, the newer Windows versions never appealed enough to consider going getting, and they're growing less and less appealing with each new update. I'm using Win10 at work and it has only cemented my conviction to not get it for myself.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

For me it's the reverse. Windows 2000, for me, was the best looking windows to date. Windows vista, XP, and indeed aero felt child like, non-serious, unprofessional.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Funny considering I still remember people specifically hating on XP and 7 for looking too "toy like".

The more things change the more they stay the same.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)
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