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submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 30 points 1 week ago

There's my president xi-vote

[-] [email protected] 26 points 1 week ago

"But CoMmunisT Chyna is out to plunder the gardens of Europe and North America and we have to stop them from it" - maybe-later-kiddo frothingfash

[-] [email protected] 25 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I wish we had more Fidels and Guevaras in the world today. I don't think they would be preaching peaceful coexistence with the capitalists. I don't think they would be so naive as to think that you can peacefully coexist with capitalism. It will seek their destruction and they will be forced to change path from this one way or another.

I see it as an ideological mistake as large as democratic socialism is compared to revolutionary socialism. You can not expect them to not seek your violent destruction just because you played nicely. You have to seek revolutionary socialism because they will not allow a peaceful alternative. In the same line of thinking they categorically will not allow peaceful coexistence either, you have to seek revolutionary coexistence.

[-] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago

Thing is that revolutionary socialism can't be imposed on others. I think that China's approach of leading by example is the correct one to take. China does not seek conflict, and it does not seek to dominate countries, or to impose its values on them. However, China will defend its interests, and will push back when threatened. The capitalist world is tearing itself apart, and it will be up to the people living under capitalist regimes to find ways to build socialism domestically.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago

I didn't say anything about imposing it. Supporting revolutions that come from the ground up within other countries is not imposition.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

While supporting revolutionary movements is a principled stance, it necessarily leads to the formation of ideological camps, as demonstrated during the Cold War era. In a world where capitalism reigns supreme, socialists find themselves at a disadvantageous position. This was the predicament that the USSR faced, which made it an easy target for unification among capitalist regimes due to its threat to their collective interests. The Chinese approach, on the other hand, cleverly exploits this division by keeping the capitalist world fragmented and weak, allowing existing socialist countries to thrive without constant threats of annihilation.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

Becoming a threat to their collective interests is an inevitable outcome whether they do or do not use their position to put a thumb on the scales of socialist movements around the world.

This is an unavoidable contradiction. At some point or another the collective capitalist world WILL see unify around it. Periods of socialist growth and socialist retraction are going to continually occur until the contradiction resolves itself. Socialists should do everything in their power during the growth periods so that the effect of the retraction periods are lessened.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

Capitalist world is in a crisis now, and we can see anti capitalist movements only getting stronger around the globe. Meanwhile, BRICS is a perfect example of the division in the capitalist world. It's a bigger economic bloc than the G7 now, and it includes a mix of capitalist and socialist countries. Something like BRICS would not be possible with an ideologically driven geopolitical position from China.

Furthermore, as the economic situation in the west continues to decline, we're seeing people increasingly lose faith in the system. Western powers continue to weaken, and their ability to prevent socialist movements also weakens as a result. Recent events in Bolivia are a perfect illustration of this working in practice.

The contradiction is unavoidable, but it's possible to create a situation where socialists will be the ones who have the upper hand.

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[-] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago

I think it's probably actually better for the world that China isn't painting a huge target on it's back by supporting every single revolution everywhere.
The Soviet Union ran itself ragged with all the military spending, including to places that were basically socialist in name only to get weapons from them and it mostly resulted in a lot of violence and death and didn't create any lasting communist governments for the most part.

Beating capitalism by undermining the global economic systems seems a better way to go.

[-] [email protected] 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

This is interpreting history with hindsight. Post-WWII was a very different world that culminated in mass decolonization as a result of a confluence of factors including the war bankrupting the British empire, and decades of independence movements that had been working toward national liberation.

The USSR either let those independence movements fend off for themselves (which actually happened to some countries, under Stalin but in the European communist context) and be crushed by the bourgeois counter-revolutions, or provide weaponry and support their anti-colonial and anti-imperialist cause.

There is a reason why even after 30 years of the USSR dissolution, the vast majority of the people in the Global South still throw their support behind Russia, even though it is no longer under a socialist government.

Ask yourself this, what made them so appreciative of Russia even to the present day, if the aid from the USSR only caused unnecessary deaths and violence in their countries?

[-] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago

I mean how else do you interpret history if not in hindsight?
I'm not saying they shouldn't have done it, or I don't understand the context in which they are doing it, but it didn't create a very long-lasting coalition of socialist countries and the USSR no longer exists.

China is taking a different path, I think understandably, and we will have to wait and see if it works.
It's not as if in a similar vein a lot of Global South counties aren't throwing their support behind China because of the BRI as well.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Today’s China already has a larger economy than the US. To think that China is still “too weak” to take on the US (which is inevitable because the US is already actively trying to take out China) simply don’t understand that on a real economy level, China already has the productive capacity to self-sustain if they orientate their industries immediately (actually, should have been done yesterday). What the US has is the power of its currency that is propped up in the virtual sector (real estate, finance, and likely soon, cryptocurrency).

The problem with China is that their economy is still far too reliant on export (especially to high income countries like the US and Europe) which makes them a beneficiary of the status quo arrangement, and upsetting that status quo will adversely impact their own industries, which is why they have been reluctant on taking on the US directly.

BRI is not a critical advantage for China right now because 70% of their infrastructure loans were denominated in US dollars, which really is just a consequence of China realizing they were accumulating junk papers from the US for giving them cheap goods made using Chinese labor and resources. China stopped buying US treasuries around 2013-ish and put those dollars into BRI investments, but all those dollars are still under the US banking system which means the US can seize them just like they seize Russia’s foreign reserves easily. Another reason why China is still scared of taking on the US directly.

China needs to restructure those loans into yuan and cancel them altogether and the only way forward is really for China to re-distribute the global industrial capacity more evenly to the rest of the world (and at the same time, destroying the US’s ability to impose its imperialist ambitions on the rest of the world), otherwise there is no way out of this huge trade imbalance deadlock where the US gets total control over the global market that is the hallmark of neoliberal capitalism.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago

China is painting a huge target on its back whether it does or does not.

Several communist states today exist specifically because the USSR did that, and I am convinced that they still would have been targeted and defeated if they had not done it.

If communists do not use their position to advance communism when the opportunity exists they will regret it when we enter a second period of retraction.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago

I guess we will see

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[-] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago

As long as Chinese ATGMs somehow make its way to Hamas, it's all good. I think this is going to be their playbook. They'll just say a bunch of crap about peaceful coexistence while Chinese weapons and drones just mysteriously appear in the hands of people who hate the US.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago

This is the one pretty much. This is not 1917 anymore, anyone saying world superpowers should not tolerate each other is just asking for nuclear holocaust with extra steps. China is making progress, China is surpassing the west, China knows what it’s doing. They don’t need your cracker ass to tell them what to do.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

I think it is very frustrating but I do appreciate China's complete commitment to its own development to the point where it will be able to dictate terms to the imperialists.

So many other socialist countries crumbled after the fall of the USSR. While on one hand this demonstrates how supportive the USSR was of their projects, it also demonstrates a key weakness, as it means they were unable to provide an alternative model for trade and development. A single partner goes down and suddenly North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Eastern Europe all go to shit. If they were robust and developed and had consistent trading partners they would be in a much better position today. Yugoslavia might still exist if it hadn't tried to play both sides and depend on both the USSR and the IMF.

China offers a path forward that I think is more robust, even though it has contradictions. When the imperialists try to fuck you, China will be there to trade. This is, by far, imperialists' most powerful weapon and China is destroying it more and more every day. It is the only reason we can see pink movements in Latin America, the establishment of AES in the Sahel, of Russia (not socialist, but an opponent to Western imperialists) not immediately collapsing in response to getting cut off from the USD banking system.

There's a point missing from this, though. Why couldn't China just do that and support revolution elsewhere? In my opinion... it could. It really could do more. I think a lot of this is a holdover from China considering itself to be in a very weak position (and it does still have many weaknesses) where it cannot take the anti-imperialist lead in a new cold war. It doesn't want to take lead in a new cold war, it wants to develop itself as much as possible first, to weaken the imperialist empire and build its alternative (China-led multipolarity).

I think it is reasonably perceived that stronger moves against imperialists will further the creation of two blocs that crystallize current geopolitical alignments. I think it is also reasonably perceived that the trend of those alignments is favorable towards China, so the more time before crystallization, the better. Maybe it will just be, literally, NATO vs. everyone else some day.

I think that it is likely that we will see foreign policy change from China over the next few decades. Not necessarily into a firebrand supporter of revolution on ML principals, but I do think they'll start to more openly flex muscle around arms shipments, sanctions, national sovereignty, etc. I think the policy of "we will trade with everyone" will begin to have exceptions. A lot of it will be prompted by an imperialist West looking to crystallize those blocs in their favor.

Anyways I do also find their strategy frustrating even though I do see the value in it. I see a large nation led by a communist party that allows and even participates in the genocide of Gaza by trading with Israel and not rallying any kind of coercive international resistance. I see a large nation led by a communist party that fails to consistently ally with communist movements in neighboring countries and even generates opposition to China within them, as China makes deals with their oppressors. These are missed opportunities to forward our cause and they are missed due to highly sophisticated but still disappointing strategies developed in an era where China was a minor power.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Why couldn't China just do that and support revolution elsewhere?

I definitely agree with this, but given the modern history of China and its local history (1980+) theres a lot of risk in losing these fights supporting revolution, and it crystalizes the international bourgeoisie against you. Especially like the Soviet war in Afghanistan, you stick your neck out for not a whole lot of gain (underdeveloped trading nations with shaky institutions) that the safer option is to just focus inwards, to not allow your population hear the siren song of liberalism, and then to work with and develop these countries, working with their institutions to maybe create a proletariat capable of wielding power that is hopefully ideologically allied to you a la the Belt and Road Initiative.

I wont claim that China could see Western Powers devolving in the wake of the Soviet collapse but the West really didnt waste much time stretching their legs and continuing their wars of aggression, Gulf War, bombing Yugoslavia, and ultimately taking one too many risks that like in the USA left them to focused on foreign adventurism than keeping the lights on at home. America after the collapse also kept a list of enemies especially going into the 21st century that didnt have china on it. It had Saddam, Kim Jong-il and Khomeini. And that list got smaller and smaller and China only now is on that list.

We also cant really say that the Chinese method has worked yet. We're still a while out of the total collapse of Western Hegemony, and while China is ascendant, theres still doubt in my mind that BRICS could hold up the world economy in place of America. The world seems likely to change very fast in a very chaotic way, and China's stalwart development seems like the only thing that could change without being destroyed by it.

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[-] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago

UMMMMM... but Qin Shi Huang qin-shi-huangdi-fireball did an imperialism and made imperial china therefore china was the first imperialist state ever and is inherently imperialist therefore i have destroyed it china has no choice but to explode now smuglord

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago

UMmm actually the akkadians were the first to create an empire to impliment imperial control over other cultures and they did that thousands of years before qin shi huang.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago
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[-] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago

“Over the past 70 years, the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence have transcended time and space” A bit grandioes

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago
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this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024
114 points (96.0% liked)

sino

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