this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 205 points 1 month ago (23 children)

Hmmm disagree. If someone's politics are violence, and they have a serious path to enacting them, it's self defense. Self defense is generally acceptable.

I don't want to politely walk into a concentration camp because a bunch of people in states I don't even live in voted to exterminate the queers and their friends.

Also anyone who's going to say "Gay marriage is violence against society" is an asshole and wrong. Anyone who says abortion is murder but isn't doing jack fuck to help living humans is not worth listening to. Just to preempt the "well they think the same about you!" nonsense.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Here's the thing: Trump's politics do not stop with Trump. Killing him does not kill the fascistic movement he's contributed greatly to, it has a life of it's own, and even had he died today, whoever replaces him would still be peddling the same kinds of things, except they'd now have a martyr to rally Trump's old fanbase around, one that, by virtue of being killed, many people are going to feel reluctant to criticize. As such, I feel that this attack, assuming it was politically motivated (and I figure the odds that someone shoots at Trump for reasons unrelated to his political agenda are quite slim, so it's probably a safe assumption) was a mistake- I fear that it will have helped Trump's agenda more than hurt it, and would have done so even if it was successful in killing him.

Now, Im not saying this to be one of those "violence is never the answer" types, I do recognize that there are situations where the only hope one has to survive an openly hostile political force is overwhelming violence; but it must be recognized that such an effort is extremely risky, it has significant drawbacks even if successful (such as setting a precedent legitimizing political violence, which anyone else may use, or causing collateral damage), and carries a significant risk that when the shooting stops, you'll be on the losing end. As such, it really should be a last resort, and seeing as Trump isn't even president yet, hasn't even been voted in, and doesn't yet have a legislature stacked up to ensure he can actually carry out his agenda, we're not yet at the point where it is the only option left to stop him. Employing it now makes it more likely that we reach that point.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 month ago (11 children)

Trump is enough of a cult of personality that I think if he died (either through violence or natural causes), it would limit the effectiveness of the right wing. You are correct that it wouldn't stop the problem. Project2025 wasn't written by just him. There's whole buildings full of assholes.

You may also be correct that this will motivate his fans, and that's a net negative.

Also, I think the genie's out of the bottle on political violence. There was already a coup attempt. If trump loses, I would be extremely surprised if there wasn't violence. If he wins, people will suffer and die through policy. We're not in a good spot.

Unfortunately, I cannot thanos snap away the far right.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Trump did kind of show Republicans that if you lean into your bullshit without flinching that no one will stop you. I think it's hard to pull off for non-narcissists, though.

Remember "grab them by the pussy?" We all thought he was done after that, the media started circling for the inevitable play of contrition, which... never came. He just kept spouting bullshit, and it worked

That and voter suppression and probably foreign interference to destabilise the US

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[–] [email protected] 172 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I hope Trump dies from infection, sorry Bernie.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Sadly, I doubt it.

This is going to be the first chapter in a book about several assassination attempts during his reign of terror, at least if it turns out the way I expect it to.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They're going to ramp security way up. I wouldn't be surprised if the left finally gets their way with gun bans as a result of this. Right before a fascist takeover.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago (5 children)

It could happen.

Historically in the US assassination attempts are pretty much the only thing that moves the needle on gun control.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago

Him dying from a shot to the ear or heart palpitations after the adrenaline would be peak humor, and a better outcome than if he was shot in the head.

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[–] [email protected] 115 points 1 month ago (29 children)

I remember when a politician's family was nearly killed and this happened.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 month ago

I like presidents who don't get shot.

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[–] [email protected] 111 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

Let's not forget, trying to remove access to health care is an act of violence that will cause people to die. Restricting access to women's health alth care is an act of violence that will cause people to die. Outlawing gender affirming care is an act of violence that will cause people to die. Appointing judges to support these policies - and those judges writing opinions enabling those policies as well as opinions restricting environmental regulations - are acts of violence that will cause people to die. Locking migrants in cages is an act of violence that leads to people dying. So why are those acts of violence acceptable but this one is not?

You might say that none of them are acceptable. But let me put it another way. Law enforcement shot and killed the perpetrator of this act of violence and we as a society deem it reasonable and justified. But why shouldn't we do the same thing for this guy?

And the answer is: we should.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 month ago

He killed over a million people during covid.

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[–] JasonDJ 64 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Really wonder what Trump would've said if Bernie got shot. Probably offer a pardon to whoever was involved. Maybe even a Medal of Freedom.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Beside it not being the proper democratic way of deciding how to be governed, the problem with political violence is that it quickly spirals out of control and can burn everything to the ground.

[–] JasonDJ 26 points 1 month ago

Oh, I know that. And I'm willing to bet Trump does too. That's why I said what I said.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Americans always claim they have the 2A to prevent fascism but when someone actually tries to protect the democracy he is judged by everyone.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Well actually in this case, the shooter was just hunting pedophiles.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 month ago (1 children)

And here we have the Paradox Of Tolerance.

The world would be better off without people like Trump in it. I get that we don't want to be like them in espousing violence against people we don't like, but at the same time when you have a person who objectively will make the world a more dangerous and unstable place, along with effecting actual harm against the citizens of his own country, you can only be so tolerant.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Tolerance isn't a paradox; it's a social contract. Trump broke that contract on Jan 6 and is no longer protected by it.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 month ago

His political adversary doesn't think it's unacceptable. He led several thousand people to Congress to lynch the vice president after he lost the election.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 month ago

Somebody who only speaks violence will not respond to peaceful methods. I'm not excited by the prospect of violence but we also can't just let ourselves be trampled because of some misguided notion that "Well, they decided on violence, there's nothing we can do because violence back would make us worse 🤷‍♂️"

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 month ago (22 children)

I loved it when America did political violence on German soldiers. Today's shooter is a patriotic hero engaging in America's most noble pastime, shooting Nazis.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Did someone really expect him to be okay with political violence and assassinations?

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Now let's see who Trump blames for it

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 month ago (4 children)

The violent, radical left, of course.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

Ingonna be honest. Trump is a danger to democracy and to the world as a whole. Eliminating him would be a contribution to democracy. However, if you decide to go for him, make sure hes really dead. If he just gets hurt that's a Hufe win for him, because he then can use this attack to deploy a massive anti democratic campaign giving him more Attention.

However, violence should be the lädt option. There are other ways to defeat fascism. Make it possible that the average person can have a good life and don't copy fascists points. In the case of Trump the USA also missed its chance to ban him from the elections.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago (13 children)

The problem with taking down Fascism with violence is that you're just killing the figureheads, not the fascist ideas. Say that the assassination attempt was successful - he'd become a martyr who would strengthen those beliefs in people (they want to take us down because we're right type of deal), and his legacy would be easily continued by thousands of influential conservative politicians/foundation members.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If only Trump had the same view on political violence..

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"Political violence is absolutely unacceptable"

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 month ago

Based and society-pilled

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Bernie, you’ve always been a better person than I.

Fuck Trump, and I wish the bullet would have cracked his skull open like a piñata.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Sad. The only appropriate response is to tell Trump and his GOP toadies to get over it. This is the situation they created. This is the natural consequence of reactionaries and lax gun control. They shat this bed and they absolutely deserve to drown in it.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The best response is exactly his response. He's better then Trump, so he acts like a better person by not saying stupid shit like Trump does. Although I'm sad the shooter missed, political assassination is always bad, and likely will work in Trump's favor. If Trump would have died, another even more radical replacement would have benefitted from it. There is no positive outcome from a political assassination. Trump will either get more support or become a martyr.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago (6 children)

If politicians decides politically to use the military for violence against anyone or anything, is that political violence? And if yes, does that means there is legal political violence?

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Even though I disagree with Bernie on a lot, he is a class act. This is absolutely the correct response. It shows that he has moral integrity and stands by his principles

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Regardless of your personal opinions, there was pretty much nothing else Bernie was going to say, other than perhaps nothing.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago

Thoughts and prayers.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago

Hmm. Great cover for the real gunman, don't you think? He is pretty spry for an old man.

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