this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (15 children)

ITT tankies pretend they don't know that legal arguments are meant for court and are made to argue from every angle.

No, this isn't an admission that the primaries were rigged. They weren't. It's a hypothetical argument meant to progress a legal case to summary judgment, where the lawyer argued that even if everything the plaintiff said was correct, the DNC would still win the case.

Essentially, what the lawyers for the Democrats were doing was "if I grant everything you claim for the sake of argument, you would still lose, and here's why." That doesn't admit anything. OP knows it, but since he's a literal Stalin-humping fascist who just wants to see anyone who wishes for a better world fail, he doesn't care.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago

Sing it with me now, folks: 🎢... o'er the laaaaaaand of the freeeee🎢

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

football-lucy Harm reduction, bro. This time it will be different, bro. football-charlie-brown

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is why I'm a leftist not a lib. I vote Democrat bc no choice but I want more progressives in office....

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

but I want more progressives in office

You're not getting them because that's not what the ruling class wants from the DNC.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Better than voting for gqp. I vote progressive in primaries and forced into the other bc no one has the spines to fix the system to ranked elimination voting. I'm leftist bc at least they're not actively trying to unalive me like the right

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (10 children)

I'm leftist bc at least they're not actively trying to unalive me like the right

They'll just kneel in Solidarity with you as the right tries to unalienable you.

Progress.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As someone else posted on this site

"there are two types of democratic voters, centrist conservatives and hostages"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I mean yea sounds about right. The moderates are wolves in sheep's clothing. Esp when they randomly flip parties and screw us over on rights and encourage the gerrymandering to get worse πŸ™ƒ

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

There's progressives, as well as a good breakdown of demsocs. You can be pleasantly surprised about some parts of Biden's presidency without being a centrist conservative who would have had him near the top of your list

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Ok Hillary sit the fuck down.

[–] xerazal 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unfortunately in the two party duopoly, they're the best we've got.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

football-lucy Harm reduction, bro. This time it will be different, bro. football-charlie-brown

[–] xerazal 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fully aware, but it's either that or allow the other party, which has become increasingly more fascist, back into power.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The differences between them are getting less and less apparent over time.

Biden rolled back next to nothing of his predecessor's policies and executive orders. The border concentration camps are still open for business. brump

[–] xerazal 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bruh Republicans are open about backing trump even if he goes to jail. Trump has openly talked about how he wants to get rid of the constitution. They could have prevented him from running again after his failed coup attempt and they let him off the hook.

At least some good has come from the Biden presidency, which tbh I didn't expect at all. Some progress is better than no progress. 15 min wage for federal contract workers, an NLRB that is more pro-union than ever in my lifetime, an actual attempt at student loan debt reduction (which he should just nix via executive order but I digress), a 15% minimum corporate tax rate, bring back microchip manufacturing, and there's more that I can't list off the top of my head.

Babysteps sure, but it's better than nothing and way better than the backwards trajectory we got during the trump presidency and beyond the trump presidency due to his SC appointments.

Perfect? Hell no. But something. We need to take the wins we can get while still hammering him from the left to do more.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bruh

bruh yourself.

But something.

Your "harm reduction" president has not reduced much harm at all, no matter how you scramble in the dirt to try to hold up shiny things to wave at me.

It's just cope

We need to take the wins we can get

The last three years, especially with covid and climate change, were not wins. Even the pretense of slowing the damage down is weak to false now.

[–] xerazal 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Jesus Christ might as well just give up on everything with your attitude lol

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We came to the conclusions because we want to avoid giving up. Once you realize that settling for "harm reduction" is also a form of giving up, you learn to think strategically and read people who think strategically about these things for real improvement. Like Lenin.

[–] xerazal 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Unfortunately harm reduction is all we can do rn, unless you are ready to start a working class revolution, which would require the majority of the working class to be on board with us. And idk about you, but I don't think the American working class is there just yet.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It ain't there because people like you put more energy into performing in electoral theatrics for the enemies of the working class rather than investing that energy in organizing, educating, and agitating your fellow worker.

[–] xerazal 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Or maybe I'm actually trying to help the working class by taking any win we can get whereas you'd rather watch the world burn than see the working class get any kind of win because it's not big enough for you.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am begging you to take the energy you're putting into convincing others to vote and redirect it toward learning to handle a rifle.

[–] xerazal 2 points 1 year ago

Why not both..

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lmao tell that to the Russians and Ukrainian workers who are dying by the thousands because of your utopianist belief in "taking any win".

Absolute scum. There is zero difference material difference between you and the Democrats under biden. You can keep saying you're a leftist or that you work in the interests of the working class, but you actions - or lack thereof - speaks louder than any phrasemongering you do.

[–] xerazal 2 points 1 year ago

I'm apparently more of a leftist than you if you're willing to throw the working class under the bus purely because the wins we are getting are smaller than you'd like.. hell, they're smaller than I'd like too. But it's something, which is better than nothing or worse, outright reversals.

All your online posturing is doing absolutely nothing for the working class. Stop throwing around leftist ideals as if you actually give a damn. I wish we were in a better spot, but we aren't. We are here, this is the hand we've been dealt, we have to make the most of it. The alternative is fascism winning, and you and I being lined up and shot like dogs.

And bringing up the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Oh boy, let me guess. You'd rather we stop supporting Ukraine and if it just happens to fall to Russia, so be it? Please..

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So some rail unions would like to talk to you about 'taking any win we can get' I'd imagine.

[–] xerazal 2 points 1 year ago

Yes and I'm still pissed at Biden about that. That doesn't mean he hasn't done good.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

How are you doing that except for voting for Biden? The class conscious workers who aren't succeeding in spreading that are the ones at fault, like me (and you, though I'm not convinced of you being class conscious). I'm trying my best though, in many organizations around many topics, to push my analysis further and improve it and the organizations to reach the goals of socialism.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Being a leftist is coming to grips with how bad the situation is

[–] xerazal 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude ik shit is bad. I would have much preferred someone else be president rn, but we are stuck with Biden so we have to make due.

And 2024 is going to be Biden v trump again. A shitty matchup, ik, but again we have to make due.

Bring a leftist also means trying to make the most of a bad situation. This isn't about what you or I want, it's about what's right for the working class given our current situation. And between Biden and trump, Biden is far better for the working class than trump could ever be.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why are you even talking about the presidency at this point? It's not real. You just saw 'the good' party openly admit that it's not democratic and it's against you. You know the same donors run both parties. Why are you still in this framing?

[–] xerazal 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Because 1 party does everything their donors say, the other does most of the stuff their donors say but still shows it's able to be pushed by their voters to do good.

Do you really think that the donor class wanted the recent NLRB rule change that helps unions against union busting? No, but it happened because unlike the Republican party, the Democratic party can be swayed to fight for the working class. Is it perfect? No, but it's something.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

But they aren't really swayed, they are playing the good guys to prevent riots. The role they fill, regardless of how any democrat personally feels, is the role of the small concession to prevent riot. It's super helpful to capitalism to have a tiny outlet so that the major exploitation is ignored. It's only "better" when you obsess with the short term goals and can't see the projects over decades and across borders. Sometimes I get it, honestly, like I am never mad at comrades voting for the hope that trans and indigenous comrades aren't genocided. But it's just not good strategy to think about that decision for more than like 4 minutes a year because of the above stated functional argument.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

With one hand they give you a ruling that says that if an employer breaks labor law (and the DoL agrees to enforce it), card check gets a union instead of a union vote.

With the other they take away three years of work labor organizing through impossible hoops by breaking the strike of the railworkers, who got nothing to show for it.

What's the point of a union if you can't strike?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

We don't 'got' them. They're the enemy. This is a post about them showing you that they're explicitly hostile to you, your politics, and the concept of democracy.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh shit guess I'll just vote third party, then.

lol no

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Our First Past the Post Winner Take All voting system is demonstrably the worst voting system. Any form of preference polling like Ranked Choice Voting (fairvote.org) is significantly better. No voting system is perfect, but the current one used in most of the US is the shittiest one on the market today.

Any system like RCV opens the door to more parties and candidates who don't 100% toe a party line. It also filters extreme position candidates out of primaries.

We can do better.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I've been trying to come up with a term to describe this phenomenon for a while now. Privatewashing, maybe?

Westerners are programmed to not accept certain things if done by the government directly. Publishing propaganda? Bad. Laundering government propaganda through private media outlets? Not a problem. Interfering with a foreign election? Bad. Sponsoring a "Private NGO" to do it? Totally fine. Foreign government influencing domestic policy? Bad. Multinational companies paying lobby groups to do the same? Democracy.

In this case, the government telling people that their votes don't count and that rules don't have to be followed would be flagrantly undemocratic. A private organization doing that though? Well we can't do anything about it even if it's directly relevant to the outcome of elections and national policy.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Truly AMERICA is the freest state on earth cuss you can vooooooooooote right? ...Right?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Bernie is an independent, though he has been invited to join the Democratic Party. He has refused. Why would the DNC spend its resources on Bernie when people spend considerable time, effort and money that are actually party members? By rule, an independent cannot run for nomination for the Republican party.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This is why. The DNC is trash.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Sure. You've got to agree with a person with such great logic.

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