I'm not a fan of Win 7/8 being called "ancient"
this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2024
202 points (95.9% liked)
PC Gaming
8784 readers
392 users here now
For PC gaming news and discussion. PCGamingWiki
Rules:
- Be Respectful.
- No Spam or Porn.
- No Advertising.
- No Memes.
- No Tech Support.
- No questions about buying/building computers.
- No game suggestions, friend requests, surveys, or begging.
- No Let's Plays, streams, highlight reels/montages, random videos or shorts.
- No off-topic posts/comments, within reason.
- Use the original source, no clickbait titles, no duplicates. (Submissions should be from the original source if possible, unless from paywalled or non-english sources. If the title is clickbait or lacks context you may lightly edit the title.)
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
The tech industry moves fast. Win 7/8 are ancient in tech terms
Something that came out last week can be considered ancient in tech terms.
Windows 7 is 15 years old. If it was a person it would be able to get a learners permit to drive in many states.
It's also been EOL for over 4 years.
We don’t call 15 year old cars ancient. Blu rays aren’t ancient. CDs aren’t ancient. Tons of things are 15 years old and fallen out of general use but aren’t considered ancient.
I’d argue that XP is ancient but not Win7.
Blu rays and CDs are considered ancient. Considering all the storage we have now, something like a CD is close to worthless for almost everyone. Blu rays could have their own niche still, but it's still considered ancient by modern standards. Technology evolves so fast, and it's hard to keep up.
I call shenanigans. Blu rays still make up most of physical sales and that video quality makes up the most consumed resolution.
I can kinda see the argument for CDs but they are still sold new in big name B&M stores. “Close to worthless” is hyperbole at the very least.
Just because they are still sold doesn't mean that they are not ancient.
You can still buy, for example, a GT 1030, which, compared to more modern graphics cards, is considered ancient.
Just because something is still being sold or bought doesn't mean that it's not ancient.
Cars have an expected lifespan of like 20 years, operating systems don't.
Windows 7 came out with very early support for efi boot which took explicit effort to get to work. At this point most OEM machines out there don't even support the legacy booting mode. That is ancient by tech standards.
Windows 7 is as old now as Windows 3.5 was when Windows 7 released.
When Win7 reached EOL we were using Linux 5.4
That's pretty ancient.
But the kernel going 3.11 and not stopping at 3.10 was just yesterday... merely 10 years ago.
Sytems that don't receive security patches anymore well deserve that title. You'd hardly keep it airgapped if you care about Steam updates.
In computer time, it is pretty ancient.
"This could take like hundreds of nanoseconds... It could even take one. Whole. Second! 😱" - Enzo Matrix, Reboot
What value is there to using windows 7 nowadays. I genuinely don't understand
It's the last Windows that could look this comfy:
Inertia
Ancient! What does that make me!?
antediluvian
Starting to see an absolute flood of those. A literal deluge!
a Cosmic Horror
The ancestors. According to the new gen we are the ancestors.
Ancient... ME is ancient, XP is old, 7 is almost old (you still see it here and there).
I'm not ancient, you are ancient!
It’s time to install Nobara on those machines.
Personally, I dislike that Nobara is relying on patched Mesa and kernel versions. This is unnecessary risk of instability. AFAIK Bazzite doesn't do that.
There wasn't even a DOS 5 version of Steam ☹️
Friendly Reminder: You can install any KDE based Linux distribution and probably have an equivalent or better experience with security and regular steam updates.
Compatibility isn't really an excuse in this case, as Windows 7/8 will no longer be compatible with the most troubling games anyway. You'd be best off on a modern system with proper security patches.
? still works fine on my windows 7 pc.
I wouldn't type on that without rubber gloves, if I were you.
And yet it is just fine for your banking institutions, and a surprising amount of government machines.
I think it is just lovely on my media PC in my living room.
That's because those banking institutions have enterprise level support that they pay for yearly from Microsoft.
You do not.
Or they're firewalled off. Or not on the network at all.
Funny enough, no they don't all have enterprise level support from Microsoft. Hell the ones that do don't use it, at the scale you are talking about you likely have the same or better support internally.
I don't understand why you think that you can even get Microsoft support for 7 at this point?
Businesses, especially banks, have different rules. Banks are still getting security updates for their systems running Windows XP (generally ATMs).
A bank isn't some run of the mill business and banks always have special relationships with Microsoft.
I was the guy fixing those, no they don't.
Yes, they do. Ffs, your claims are ridiculous.
Read and learn something for a change:
Banks and other institutions that use Windows XP often do so under specialized agreements with Microsoft, called Custom Support Agreements (CSAs) or Custom Extended Support Agreements (CESAs). These agreements allow organizations to continue receiving critical security updates for their legacy systems even after official support has ended. Here’s how these agreements work:
- Custom Support Agreements (CSAs)
After Windows XP's official support ended in April 2014, Microsoft offered CSAs to organizations that could not immediately migrate to newer operating systems due to compatibility, cost, or operational constraints.
Under a CSA, Microsoft continues to provide critical security updates specifically tailored to the organization's systems.
These agreements are typically very expensive and are meant as a temporary measure while the organization transitions to a supported platform.
- Why Banks Use CSAs
Legacy Systems: Many ATMs and banking software were originally built to run on Windows XP, and updating to newer systems can be complex and costly due to hardware and software dependencies.
Security Needs: Despite using outdated systems, banks must maintain a high level of security. The CSA ensures critical vulnerabilities are patched.
Regulatory Compliance: Financial institutions are heavily regulated and need to meet strict security standards. Extended support agreements help them avoid compliance violations.
- Custom Patching and Support
Microsoft provides patches only for the most critical vulnerabilities that could severely impact the organization.
These updates are not made available to the general public, ensuring that only organizations with a CSA receive them.
- Cost
The cost of a CSA is high and increases annually to encourage organizations to migrate to supported platforms.
Some estimates suggest costs in the range of $1,000 to $5,000 per device per year, depending on the scale and specifics of the agreement.
- Alternatives Banks Might Use
Some banks have begun moving away from Windows XP entirely, often transitioning to supported operating systems like Windows 10 or Windows Embedded systems.
They may also use virtualized environments to maintain compatibility with older applications without relying on outdated OS versions directly.
These agreements allow banks and other critical industries to maintain operations securely while planning their eventual migration to modern systems. However, this is a stopgap solution and not a permanent fix, as the long-term risks and costs of relying on unsupported software grow over time.
often do so under specialized agreements with Microsoft
You use chat GPT for this one? Because this does not say what you think it does.
Yes, it says what I have been saying all along. Banks and financial institutions have special service contracts with Microsoft.
You, do not. Don't run old ass windows versions that are not actively supported. This is not a controversial statement.
Your attempt to compare your usage vs the usage of a financial institution is not only a false equivocation, it's particularly stupid in light of the fact specialized contracts exist.
You, do not. Don’t run old ass windows versions that are not actively supported. This is not a controversial statement.
Do run them, go ahead. Not supported does not mean non functional.
Your attempt to compare your usage vs the usage of a financial institution is not only a false equivocation, it’s particularly stupid in light of the fact specialized contracts exist.
I worked for 15 years in the industry (7 years in the banking division) I am very explicitly comparing nothing as both myself and most banks I worked with are using legacy software in the same way. Its about risk management and understanding what can be done to your system, running an old OS is not on the top of my risk list.
Just backup your data, manage your accounts and passwords with the idea they may be compromised. This is how people not trying to sell you something operate.
Based upon your responses here, I don't believe you. But at the end of the day, you can run whatever you like, but don't encourage others to take stupid and unnecessary risks.
Also, you yourself should consider Linux, specifically Zorin OS. I am 90% windows user, but because I work for an MSP, I end up doing a lot on all of the "major" operating systems. I ran across Zorin and enjoyed it so much that I main it on my work laptop now.
I run Linux but I like my windows 7 machine for my living room.
Oh and you can not beleave me about what I did, I am used to it. Even when working at IBM (don't recommend) I was often told I did not work there with all sorts of exsuses from in and outside the company.
It is just lovely on any PC that doesn't connect to the internet.
Oh, you sweet summer child.
Not sure what you mean, but I've never seen a banking or government machine that was raw-dogging the internet.
They're behind a firewall, a web filter, a content deconstructor, a hyperlink sandbox and an endpoint protection where processes need to be white-listed to run.
In such a setting, it may be safe to still run Windows 7 for some tasks, but it won't be for browsing and email.
Not sure how its done in your country, but there are very much windows 7 machines here "raw dogging" the internet. Its more about risk management then anything.
I mean we are in a world where right now the security solutions are worse then the risk of attack. Right now attacks are done mainly with social engineering and the new systems make bonzi buddy look tame.
There is little point punishing my self by changing my windows 7 machine that I like just so that I can change out old vulnerabilities with new ones. I swear software fear mongering runs half the industry right now on nothing other then inertia.