this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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[–] [email protected] 67 points 6 days ago (2 children)

tell that to the $800 of copper running through my walls.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Hay $800 worth of copper, I found a 1000ft roll of shielded pure copper for $2.11 because someone misplaced the decimal point I know because it was listed for $2.1199 every thing was automated through amazon so they just shipped free shipping to, thank for listening $800 worth of copper, your the best.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 6 days ago (2 children)

*Excluding running ethernet cables to every room through the attic, down the walls to wall jacks. Also the cost of the jacks, and the various switches needed for several rooms. And the contractor to do it all.

But hey for like $600 I have cat6a in basically every room so

[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 days ago (5 children)

And the contractor to do it all.

Why wouldn’t you do it yourself?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 days ago

Like, in an old house its a massive pain in the ass to run that, but still firmly in DIY territory.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago

Disabled, so physically cannot do it, or I would.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

And then you still need a wireless router to get Internet on your phone unless you use data at home like a crazy person.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 days ago (3 children)

But what if you're gaming downstairs and the router is upstairs and then you have to go upstairs for pizza rolls so you take your gaming laptop upstairs and you're eating right next to the router and so you're just plugged in and then what if you forgot to turn off the oven and your girlfriend is yelling at you "You're going to start a fire! Why can't you remember to turn off the oven? What's wrong with you?" and then you go back downstairs to finish gaming?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

If that happens often enough to be worth 43 times more than the cat cable, then it sounds totally justified to me. But also, what if you got a toaster oven for upstairs? To put next to the router?

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Ethernet is obviously better but running ethernet around your home can be a pain in the arse

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (11 children)

A pain in the arse you only need to do once, and you can hire someone to do it for you for basically the same cost as a couple of the high end wireless routers, so in like 5 years, you break even.

Also, how much have you spent on your computer (s), phone(s), tablet(s), and all your other internet connected devices, and you won't spend like $500 on something that can run all that stuff simultaneously? Pouring literally thousands of dollars on connected devices, but most won't pay more than they would for a toaster, to get them on the internet, then pay out the wahzoo for gigabit internet that your crummy d-link router can't handle, and you wonder why all your fancy gadgets run like shit.... It's a lot like buying a Ferrari to drive on dirt/gravel roads.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Wireless tech has improved greatly over the last 20 years. Speed, latency, bandwidth, stability…all generally excellent. 15 years ago I wouldn’t have wanted to use a wireless mouse or LAN connection. Now? NBD. They just work. Still have issues with poor signal in some areas, but mesh range boosters take care of that pretty easily.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Wireless peripheral devices, sure, but if I'm streaming 4K with HD sound then I still want copper.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago (12 children)

Even shitty wireless will let you stream 4k. It only takes 50mbps. 802.11g came out in 2003 and can do 54mbps.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

50mbps is a fuckterrible bitrate for 4k HDR video content.

You should be playing physical media anyway, though.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Let's see that ethernet cable do orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing...

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[–] JasonDJ 15 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Dude I just bought 4 refurbished Linksys MX4200 (tri-band) access points for $80 (total), put on OpenWRT, and built a mesh system. I'm incredibly happy with the result, especially for the price. And, I've got wireless bridges all through the house so I can keep some things off the forwarding channels and only in the back haul.

It's not wired, but it's close enough and doesn't require me drilling through all my walls running cable or carving out a space in the house for all of it to coalesce.

Granted, I'm in an area with not a lot of wireless interference...I work in enterprise networking and I've had a lot of issues with remote workers on wireless networks that weren't capable of handling the volume of data that the users were uploading. Sometimes just because there's too much interference...but a lot of the time it's because of misconfiguration (either out of ignorance or because the good features, like multicast-to-unicast, are missing), or printer drivers that spam the wireless with multicast whenever the printer is offline (which I've seen a surprising amount of times).

If you're on wireless...multicast is bad, mmmkay? Only "one" device can talk at a time on wireless (barring MIMO shenanigans), and when it's multicast traffic...it has to get sent at the lowest compatible rates. A lot of routers set this to 6Mbps or even 1Mbps by default. So your nice fancy "1200Mbps" wireless has to slow down a crawl every time your Roku wants to tell Alexa that it's there. Which is surprisingly often. Scale up for all the internet-of-crap stuff people have and it's a miracle their wireless works at all.

Oh and I've found people with extenders they don't know about. Ring Chime? Apparently it functions as an 802.11n (only) extender. Huge bottleneck right there. And then it can only be as good as the signal it gets from the next access point.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Nah, wifi is pretty good today. I just dont like the consumer devices like the router shown here. Recently redid my wireless and went with a non wifi router, a poe switch and a few access points, connected through ethernet. I wouldnt dream of going back to the conventional one wifi router. Still use wired for stationary devices I can reach with a cable though.. TV, AV, consoles, PC are all wired.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

To be honest, I think a lot of Lemmy users are old and yearn for the older technologies simply because they have been more familiar with them than newer ones. They would have used the first gen of a technology, which may not be efficient, and dismiss it altogether, without realising that subsequent generations of that technology improves over time.

I have had that realisation of cognitive bias when I had Bluetooth headphones back in early 2010s. The wireless connection isn't great and gets cut off every now and then. I dismissed the technology as less efficient than wired earphones. It was over the years with the popularity of airpods that I gave wireless earphones another chance. And honestly, the Bluetooth connectivity vastly improved than I expected and I would not go back to using wired earphones again on regular basis because I don't have to deal with the wires getting tangled or yanked. I only use wired ones as backup if my wireless earphones went missing or broke.

Sorry to say this to OP, but it seems that you're being an old man yelling at the clouds. Look, I'm also old and I admit I have had that moment of yelling at the clouds too. We will have that more moments as we age.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

I have a similar setup to @[email protected] in regards to my home network and I wouldn't dream of removing my wifi network. I still consider wired to be superior though it rarely matters at those latencies.

My Windows laptop on wifi:

My Fedora on wired network:

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Wireless data links should be the exclusive domain of temporary, nomadic and/or sacrificial applications.

If the channel is permanent, static, or critical; as much of the path as practicable should be provisioned with constrained energy transmission.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Until the clip breaks off...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

You could have 30 clips break and it would still be cheaper.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I spend a lot more money on good Ethernet switches. But at least that works and is easier to manage than Wifi.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (8 children)

Yeah this kinda overlooks a lot of the issues with like… getting a cable somewhere

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

Wifi 7 is insanely fast to the point where it can easily be just as good as wired ethernet and can even beat a lot of the wired standards except the few latest ones. It's a good choice for devices where running a cable wouldn't be very practical, but you need wired level speed and reliability.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago

wired level speed and ~~reliability.~~

While WiFi is a lot better nowadays I've never seen it reach the reliability of wired networks.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

wired will always be better, faster, more reliable, and cheaper

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

I remember watching a video from Linus demonstrating a WiFi router. I don't remember if it was WiFi 6 or 7, but any obstacle could cause connection drops.

I don't know if things have improved since then, but I usually bond WiFi and PowerLine for rooms that Ethernet cannot reach.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Unless you need 6ft of cable or you just run wires on the floor it's more like $200 of plenium rated cable, and keystone jacks and the labor involved with the run.

My house with a half finished basement (easy access) took probably 16-20 hours running to 5 rooms.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Who buys a $300 home wifi box? They're $50-100

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago

6.99 is just one cost though. If you're needing ethernet actually done in walls then you're going to be paying a lot more than an access point.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago

I got a used 10Gbe switch and a thunderbolt 10Gbe adapter for my computer and now I can transfer my videos and photos from my NAS like it's my internal hard drives.

It can also do 2.5Gbe which pretty much future proofs me.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I set up a mesh router pair a while back - super easy setup, and the speed is good enough to have multiple TVs streaming at once, and without needing to run cables between rooms... Worth it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The problem with wireless isn't speed anymore, its stability. For a lot of applications that's fine since buffering and whatnot hides any hiccups. but gaming for example is a nightmare on wireless still.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I've been playing FPS exclusively on wireless for almost 15 years (802.11n 5ghz) and stability has been fine unless you set up your access point far away from your gaming PC for some reason.

Back then you had to get a pretty nice wireless router to do it, but it still worked fine.
Now days even relatively cheap routers will let you game just fine unless you set up far away from the AP and you're in a pro tournament.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

If you arent sensitive to jitter, packet loss, etc., and the various ways games react to it, then im happy for you.

Personally, i and many others hate it. It only takes 1 rubber band moment in a shooter to ruin a round, it only takes 1 round to lose a match. Even if you aren't playing super sweaty, its not fun. Even my wife who only games casually noticed the difference between wireless vs wired in a few different shooters after i ran a wire to her new desk. And we do have a good setup overall.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

Dude, what you're describing is not a "good setup overall".

I know I'm not sweaty, but what you're talking about goes beyond being "sensitive" or not. Wtf is wrong with your wifi that you're getting any packet loss.

I just ran a speed test multiple times from my phone in another room, and got jitter under 20ms, and packet loss between 0% and 0.1%
My gaming PC with external antenna in the same room as my wireless AP is going to get even better results.
edit: for kicks i tested my wireless gaming PC too:
ping: 2ms
jitter: 0ms
packet loss: 0%

So I'm curious what kind of performance you're expecting to be noticeable to a casual or even sweaty non-pro player.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago

I have about 6 or 8 ethernet cables in use plus more in my spare cables box, and I don't remember ever paying for one. Where do they come from? I never seem to run out.

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