this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2023
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There are languages with a 4th person pronoun. The 3rd person is kind of the main character and the 4th someone else. That helps to disambiguate sentences like "The criminal shot the cop and drove away on his (own or the cop's) bike".
Or the "gay fanfiction problem": "He looked at him and lay his hands on his lap". Is it a happy ending or a sad one? That's one theory why gender in pronouns is so resilient: more often than not, the gendered pronoun can disambiguate which person is talked about. It doesn't always work, a 3rd/4rd person distinction is superior.
You can have an alternate third person pronoun I suppose in order to distinguish two third person individuals, but that doesn't mean there's a fourth person pronoun. The general definition is:
- first person - the speaker
- second person - the audience, whether present or not present
- third person - someone or something other than the audience
So things like "chat" and "breaking the fourth wall" are second person pronouns. There is no fourth person pronoun, because anything other than first and second is covered under third person.
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Why isn't that just 2nd person plural, like "y'all"?
It speaks to a person that isn't physically present and just an observer. "You" typically addresses someone directly, but can be used to break the 4th wall and talk to observers. "Chat" is exclusively for breaking the 4th wall.
Nah, "chat" is talking to a specific, present group of people, and is used in lieu of writing a text chat. It's not like a film actor speaking to the audience, who has no way of responding. Even so, any terms used in breaking the fourth wall would still be second person, ability to respond and presence aren't a requirement here (e.g. you'd use "you" in letters, and the reader is absolutely not present).
Chat, I've found more youthspeak that I can use incorrectly and be cringe.
Skibidi!
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You are wrong on both counts.
I just addressed "you", even though you're not physically present, so clearly that's not a requirement of second person usage, not to mention that presumably this child saying "chat" is being heard by people physically nearby in this example.
In order to break the fourth wall, the speaker must be part of the media. In the instance of streamers talking to their fans, it's clearly meant to be an interactive experience between streamer and host, consuming the same media (albeit in different ways). They're asking a question and getting a response which informs their actions.
Fundamentally, it's no different than when my wife asks "did that wizard just cast fireball?" while she sits on the couch watching me playing Skyrim.
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Is it really that different than saying "Audience"? Or radio shows referring to "listeners"? Etc.
Or "y'all"
Saying "chat" to address a group or room full of people isn't different at all from addressing them as "y'all"
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Seems like the same thing to me. I think the person saying it's the first of its kind is wrong, but it would still be equally bizarre if people were addressing their "listeners" in normal conversation.
Lemmings, do you agree? ;)
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Or on a serial killer podcast, run by 35yo ladies, "murder muffins"
Ladies and Gentlemen
Friends
Guys
[To the] Saints in Ephesus
Gentlemen of the jury
Kids!
Class
Respected Members of the Lemeritus Comment Section Elle
[the] House
it's definitely 2nd person collective in its original usage and outside of its original usage it's not a pronoun because it doesn't replace a noun.
I don't think it's a pronoun at all. It's a collective noun, and a term of address.
"Ladies and Gentlemen" is also not a pronoun.
I usually say "smash that like button" but ill throw in "chat" in the future to stay relevant with these kids.
Smash that like button if you agree with me chat
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First person = someone describing their own point of view (ex: I, me)
Second person = someone being addressed (ex: you, y'all)
Third person = someone talking about someone else (ex: they, them)
Fourth person = the point of view of a collective group (ex: we, us)
I can't tell if you're making a joke or not, but when I learned it "we" was first person plural. Likewise "y'all" was second person plural, etc.
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Bird Person = friend of Rick Sanchez and generally good guy who doesn't appreciate dick moves
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Fourth person
Doesn't exist. We/us is first person plural. Some languages have a little complexity here (e.g. Tagalog has "kami" which means "we without you" and "tayo" which means "we with you," but they're both still first person plurals).
- first person - speaker
- second person - audience excluding speaker
- third person - everything else
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It's just a pronoun to address the Collective
Chat are idiots and can't be trusted
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It’s not even a pronoun in this context, it’s just a noun.
Is this the uncanny valley of dril tweets? I have no idea what this means
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