this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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Fuck Cars

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I still find it frustrating to see the exact same vehicles get significantly different tow ratings here vs Europe.

The other day the dealer tried to warn not to tow my utility trailer with my car as it would hurt the transmission (trailer was empty by the way). I pulled up an article from the UK where it was in the top three of best towing cars for this year.

Dealer looked at me like his brain needed to reboot, after which he told me the cars in Europe must be built differently or get different transmissions and left it at that.

It's truly baffling that manufacturers here hold that towing capacity hostage for arbitrary reasons.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (5 children)

There might actually be technical reasons for this.

E. g. top speed in Europe while towing is 100 km/h (some countries and trailers less), whereas in the US you can drive up to the designated speed limit.

Bearing load is also different, in Europe it's usually 4 % of the trailer weight, in the US at least 10 % is recommended.

Trailers are also different, e. g. unbraked trailers only exist up to 750 kg in Europe, whereas in the US I've seen much heavier trailers without brakes.

Trailer brakes are also different, Europe uses overrun brakes, the US electronic brakes.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's so they can sell you SUVs.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

This seems not very fuck cars but ok. Also who does not know you can tow with a car?

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (40 children)

I think this is in response to stupid large truck vs kei truck thread that made the front page. All the car brains are going on about how everyone ever needs a stupid large truck to tow 85 boats at once

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I find it very strange that Americans consider 'trucks' and 'cars' to be two separate things. Trucks are cars.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You are completely correct I was essentially trying to move along the conversation from the last post.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Oh you mean those 4 door vans that are passed off as a truck? Yeah no one should get those, they can't even tow all that well and what can you even use a 4 foot bed for? These are likely the same people that think you should get a $130k 5th wheel that is 32 feet long.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In my personal American experience, there’s a general notion that you need a pickup truck to tow anything; there’s so much marketing about how big tough pickup trucks can tow so much stuff and you really need this. So I think the implication of this post is less of a “fuck cars” and more of a “fuck trucks in particular”

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I use my old 3/4 ton all the time it is great for yard work and getting stuff (big things not like groceries). But I would never think of using it to commute or move people. I think people get sold on these trucks being all big and powerful but they always seem to use them like a minivan, and a minivan also can tow things.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But will it pull a camper for two that actually sleeps 10 at 85 mph up hill in a 65 mph speed zone?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Out of experience: yes, but illegally.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My people out east can teach you something.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Once at work I said "My Audi sedan has a towing capacity of over 5,000 lbs, isn't that crazy?" A coworker said "That's almost as much as my Tacoma!" (Early 2000s model). Turns out 5,000 is closer to his combined vehicle weight + towing capacity.

I remember my grandfather using the Grand Prix to tow and pull out stumps and stuff instead of the work truck.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just make sure it's rated for the load you're towing and whatever works.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Its probably worth noting that Europeans get more powerful cars than we do here in the US. I drive a 02 Golf TDI and it was only available as a 1.9L 90hp front wheel drive. The base model in Europe has a bigger turbo and offers 4wd versions.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I've also noticed the European versions of cars are rated to tow more. The Hyundai Ioniq I had wasn't rated to tow anything in America. It would void my warranty. The European version was rated for 1000lbs or something like that. Europeans demand the ability to tow while I guess in America we just don't expect a small car to do it.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I agree but diesel cars are much more common in Europe and they have better towing capacity due to higher torque.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

Not the core issue. My car does not run on Diesel, but I would not have any issues dragging such a caravan around. That is perfectly normal in Europe.

Why the Americans think one would need a thick fat pickup or truck just to pull a caravan is beyond me. Maybe it is just smart markting to make people buy even bigger cars than they ever need.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Been there as a kid in the 90s. Sitting in the back my my parents Toyota Carina with my 2 siblings, while we were towing a caravan.

That car had a 2l, 4 cylinder petrol and got through the Alps and Pyrenees. Iwas more comfortable touring that way than going by tent only. Now I'm in Australia where I'm gobsmacked by how much shit people "need" to go camping. All while I'm exploring the same locations and actually spending more time camping in the bush as I tour on a tiny, economical 125cc motorcycle.

Almost to prove a point, I took that little thing to Cape York and will take it RTW next year, partly to show that you don't need much.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The excuse for buying these compensators is they need them to tow. And yet I've rarely seen one ever used to tow. I saw this juxtaposition in my local area:

https://imgur.com/a/XGVLduk

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's not a truck, it's an obnoxious fashion statement.

At the same time, I've seen trucks just like that (maybe not as long) towing flatbed trailers with literal tons of stuff on the back. The sort of shit you need a forklift or tractor to load and unload. I've also seen those same forklifts and tractors on trailers.

The thing is, I live way out in the boonies, so that shit is common to see.

This same truck in any sort of city is an obnoxious fashion statement. It's all about location.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

True, but the reason in the US is different is because of laws.

https://youtu.be/1LULd9Bc9tY

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (7 children)

The question isn't "can you", but "should you".

An engine that's always working at near it's maximum capacity will fail long before an engine that's working at a quarter of it's capacity. Most people wouldn't dream of constantly running their engine bouncing off the red line of rev limiter. The same applies to towing; if you frequently tow large, heavy loads (for instance, earth moving equipment), you want to get a vehicle that's rated for much higher tonnage than the weight you'll regularly be towing. Given that campers are usually very light weight (but only slightly more aerodynamic than a brick), you can get away with towing on in a car infrequently. You should probably not do it daily.

You may also find that it's less fuel efficient to tow a heavy load in a small-ish car than the same load in a light truck.

(BTW - I'm generally opposed to taking vacations in this way. I prefer my vacations on a motorcycle, or on foot with a backpack. I'm not currently in the kind of shape I would need to be in in order to do bicycle camping.)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nobody complains about big cars whilst they're towing, and if they were doing it everyday you would see them.. well.. everyday towing, but they typically are not.

Fuel efficiency that you lose whilst towing you would gain on the other 99% of your kms.

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