politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
Let me open with this. I didn't claim to be a liberal, that is a label that you applied to me. I don't think it's an unfair assertion, but at the same time, I am not constrained to the ideological boundaries of that label.
Liberal, (at least where I'm from) means that you interpret the rules of society with some leeway. Language in laws or rules, no matter how specific, cannot encompass edge-case scenarios, so some human intuition and adjustment of a law or rule is required in order to for it to function with it's intended purpose. Briefly put, Liberals in my country beleive that laws should fit to society, rather than the opposing conservative construction, that society should be fit to the law.
Since you refuse to accept a definiton for fascism, and on multiple occasions, declaring that it is undefinable, it makes it a useless term to compare to. You might as well be asking me to compare liberal ideology to CPU architecture or the concept of cottage industry. If you won't accept a definiton for fascism, and are afraid to provide you own, then it is logically impossible for someone to use it as a comparative.
Now, I have addressed your silly roundabout 3rd grade logic. Please, with some decorum, address your point, that there is/was a time in human society post-cave-dwelling, where the social/justice system was fair and equitable. In case you forgot, that is the point that started you on this useless, indefensible and idiotic tirade. Or you can tacitly admit you don't have a point, and you can kindly fuck off.
You don't have to. If you view the world through the lens of liberal ideology, you are a liberal - regardless of the labels you self-apply.
Then you misunderstand your own ideology. Liberalism allows absolutely no leeway when it comes to the (alleged) necessity of private property, for instance. In complete contradiction, it allows no leeway when it comes to the (alleged) necessity of (so-called) "rule of law" - a contradiction, of course, that can only be solved by ensuring the law doesn't apply to those who own the largest share of all the private property.
So where is this "leeway" you speak of?
Oh, I never said I'd refuse a definition of fascism - I've read far more of them than you have. None of them actually manages to "define" fascism. Look at my second paragraph - it's childishly easy to demonstrate the logical contradictions in your ideology - liberalism has so many inherent contradictions that it, too, is extremely difficult to define satisfactorily. Fascism comprises an ideological framing that contains absolutely nothing inside it that is coherent or consistent in any way whatsoever - are you starting to see the problem with "definitions" of fascism?
The worst of them, by far, are the ones written by liberals - no surprises there. Liberals are desperately anxious to ignore the fact that fascism originates from the very status quo (you know... "rule of law" and "private property" and associated schtick) liberals are invested in preserving. They are anxious to ignore the fact that fascism originates from the very violence that is used to enforce the liberal order.
The Marxist ones are quite a bit better - but still fail to hit the mark. I'm just going to go ahead and assume you didn't even know those existed before now.
Not my point at all, liberal. Your logical fallacy. Remember this?
I requested you provide any evidence to prop up this silly Hollywood trope that you knee-jerk conflated with reality faster than Ben Shapiro snorts copium.
You have provided... absolutely none.
No no, you're faaaaaar tooooo smaaaaart to commit to an actual definition, or even general framework of what fascism is. Despite this, you still expect other people to defend against your internally checked, rapidly shifting goalpost of what qualifies as "fascism". Put your money where your mouth is, you trollish coward, define, even in loose terms, what fascism is, so that we may actually discuss it. If you can't do that, then you're not actually making any points here, you're just swimming circles in a pool of your own bullshit.
My assertion here is that there has not been a perfect, equitable society in human history. This is why I'd rather work to fix the society we have, than throw out the everything and live without society, yah know, because I like the things society brings, like running water, electricity, flushing toilets, refrigeration, videogames... You'd get the idea of your head wasn't up your ass. The evidence I'll provide for this claim, is that there has not been a completely just society in human history. If you'd like to refute this claim, you can simply name one. But you can't, because you are wrong, so you won't, and instead you'll dilly-dally and dance around while hurling labels that you don't understand at people while implicitly arguing that words don't have a real meaning.
Oh... now we're no longer talking about "definitions," are we? We have now shifted to "general frameworks?"
And you accuse me of shifting goalposts?
Yes, liberal - I still expect you to defend your ideology and your ideology's proximity to fascism.
We are discussing it, liberal - which part of this...
...are you having a hard time understanding? We are discussing the very roots of fascism - which happens to be the very same roots of your precious liberal status quo.
Are you anxious to ignore that too, liberal? For someone that claims to not be "constrained to the ideological boundaries" of liberalism, you sure seem to be acting no different than a bog-standard liberal pearl-clutcher when it comes to confronting the fascism that violently enforces your precious status quo for you.
Do tell, liberal... where were you when antifascists were actually fighting neo-nazis, klan-boys and their pig-friends in the streets a few years ago? Let me guess... heckling the antifascists from the sidelines? Like a good liberal is supposed to?
Will you be doing the same come November?
Why are you peddling the same pretexts and justifications for fascism that the alt-right peddles?
The ideological gap between you and fascism seems to be shrinking with every exchange.
Soooo... as you have provided zero evidence to prove that your zombie-fiction tropes will come to pass as soon as fascist violence doesn't enforce your precious liberal order for you, I must assume that you are simply too squeamish to admit your endorsement of said fascist violence (as long as it isn't aimed at you, of course)
I'd say we've come to the point where there is only one thing left to be discerned... why do you even bother hiding it?
Yes, because you have refused in any way to communicate a meaning of the word. That's on you, not me. Literally your doing, and it's the core premise of 90% of your statements, but you can't even tell us what means.
Do tell... just how far down the liberal-to-fascist pipeline are you?
Can't really tell you. Since you have consistently demonstrated a complete lack of awareness of what either of those words mean.
Oh, that I have to concede. I don't even think you'd be able to tell.
Kindly fuck off. You can't even address the core component of our original discussion. I'm throwing the final gauntlet here. You name a time, place, or system of government that was fair and equitable in the last 8000 years, and I'll write an apology to you, admit you are far superior, and delete everything except that statement from my account . If you can't do that, then don't even bother fucking replying. I'm just going to copy-paste a reply calling you a moron and pointing out that you have failed again to rise to the most basic level of honest discourse.
Stop projecting your evasiveness onto me, liberal - you've been desperately ducking and diving the "core component of our original discussion" from your second reply onwards.
Your attempts to distract from the fact that you have provided zero evidence to back up your initial claims is as transparent now as it was back then.
Please feel free. Now that lemmy.world is overflowing with liberals there are mountains of evidence lying around proving how quickly you lot start chanting fascist narratives as soon as anyone threatens your precious status quo - your contribution makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.
You are a moron and a coward. You won't even try to defend your statements. The only way you know to react to conflict is to hurl meritless accusation of fascism. By your own admission, you cannot describe what fascism actually is. You can fuck off anytime.
Stop projecting your evasiveness onto me, liberal - you’ve been desperately ducking and diving the “core component of our original discussion” from your second reply onwards.
Your attempts to distract from the fact that you have provided zero evidence to back up your initial claims is as transparent now as it was back then.
Please feel free. Now that lemmy.world is overflowing with liberals there are mountains of evidence lying around proving how quickly you lot start chanting fascist narratives as soon as anyone threatens your precious status quo - your contribution makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.