this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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[–] [email protected] 20 points 14 hours ago (38 children)

The problem with that strategy is that our democracy uses a first-past-the-post voting system which trends towards a two-party system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo&t=31s

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Then become one of the two parties.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 hours ago (7 children)

There already are two. We must co-opt one with a populist candidate. The Republican Party was already hijacked by Trump. That leaves the Democratic Party.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 hours ago (4 children)

Bernie tried twice, Democrats demonstrated their ability to stop that shit in its tracks. It will not work.

The only solution is for progressives to abandon the Party and start their own to replace it. The US has replaced parties before, it can be done again.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

It didn't work with Bernie for more reasons than the parties resistance. A lot of people on the left that dislike the party don't seem to understand that you still have to join the party and get involved with it if you want the party to move left. Party members and active involved people shape where the party goes. We absolutely can shift the Dems left, but it means holding our noses and becoming the party. The Dems have always been an open door, big tent, party. Walk into the tent and change minds...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

The Dems didn't let a single Palestinian-American speak at the DNC this year. The tent is big enough for Cheney, not us.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

The Democrat establishment wants power and for that they have to win elections. So having an anti establishment candidate is preferable to them over a Republicans victory. If anything good came out of the last election, it is that Trump as horrible as he is can still win elections against an establishment Democrat, so the Democrats have to change.

Also changing the parties does not work. The problem is systematic and the US really needs to change its election system, to get better politics.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

They sure didn't look like they wanted to win this election.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

They switch candidates in the middle of the campaign, because Biden's polling was that bad.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

And then Harris did everything she could to reassure everyone she was exactly like Biden, completely defeating the strategy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Third party doesn’t work. You have to do what trump did, 1 man coup from the inside.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago

Apparently Republican voters are gonna set the mark at R regardless of who it is, so how about having someone like Bernie run in the Republican primary.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Trump tried once and it worked. Neoliberal ideas are entrenched in the minds of Americans. Neoliberalism only allows change to the people in charge of systems as it asserts, incorrectly, that our institutions are flawless. Since neoliberals only consider changing people, it is much easier for a fascist to convince a neoliberal to change the people in society. Where as it is much harder for a progressive or a socialist to convince a neoliberal to enact systemic change or redistribute wealth respectively.

In short, people with neoliberal ideas in their head need to fully internalize neoliberalism as a scam.

Abandoning the Democrats will not result in them being replaced. They will continue to exist by moving further to the right, as Democrats like Chris Murphy have already proposed.

Starting a successful third party is mathematically impossible under a FPTP system. Third party candidates can only be spoiler candidates.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Why must one of those parties be the Democrats? I don’t see no fucking Whigs around, do you?

Because unlike the Wigs, the Democrats are not divided over slavery. They can just move to the right on contemporary issues as Chris Murphy details here.

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/18581056/11578151

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

The Democrats are divided over Israel. Something like 80 House members boycotted Netanyahu's speech, and the Party base is overwhelmingly anti-genocide. That's enough to get the ball rolling.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 58 minutes ago (1 children)

It's not enough. The House elections happen every two years. AIPAC can successfully primary progressive politicians if we don't vote for them.

https://apnews.com/article/squad-aipac-progressives-congress-cori-bush-0de0a96929368db72145b033261415ca

Murphy spells it out. Democrats are moving to the right to get people who aren't 100% with them on social and cultural issues. There is a huge base of people in the US that support Israel. And they tend to be consistent older voters.

https://apnews.com/article/squad-aipac-progressives-congress-cori-bush-0de0a96929368db72145b033261415ca

https://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/aging/articles/why-older-citizens-are-more-likely-to-vote

[–] [email protected] 1 points 46 minutes ago (1 children)

Democrats moving to the right are only going to lose more and more voters, because the only reason people vote for them is because they aren't as far to the right as Republicans. It sure looks like moving to the right cost Harris the election, they're destroying their only appeal.

And those voters that they lose will be looking for a new party, because they won't let themselves be dragged to the right. So while the Democrats destroy their own party it makes perfect sense for progressives to abandon ship and reform into a new party to replace them.

This is all academic, of course. In reality we might not be able to vote ever again lol

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 minutes ago

It will definitely lose them progressive votes. And it probably won't gain them many conservative votes. But the Democrats are still going to try anyway. They looks at who voted and chase those people's votes.

Most of the country wants a new party, but our FPTP system mathematically guarantees they will never get it.

lol

=/

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 12 hours ago

We have already seen a third party take over a major party. The current problem with the GOP is because it absorbed the Tea Party.

With the right symbol to rally behind, we can do the same thing to the Democratic party. We need to build the Guillotine Party.

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