this post was submitted on 26 Apr 2024
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philosophy

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Other philosophy communities have only interpreted the world in various ways. The point, however, is to change it. [ x ]

"I thunk it so I dunk it." - Descartes


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Are most people here epiphenomenalists? Physicalists?

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 5 months ago (1 children)

she qualia on my physical brain till I perceive it

[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 months ago

what's this got to do with pussy

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Epiphenomenalism? Physicalism? I just wanna grill for god's sake grillman

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Skill issue, get you a partner who can do both.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago

it is a problem that i can't get that rockin body off of my mind screm-cool

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago

Anything that implies humans have an eternal soul that comes from a nonmaterial plane is idealist to me.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I don't understand the problem, the mind is emergant from the physical. The physical little wires in my brain make the "mind". So of course it can influence my body, and my body can influence my mind, because the mind is part of the body.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

That's physicalism just using different words for mind and body, but acknowledging that both are really the same thing: the physical.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Yea, I suppose it would be.

Sometimes I prefer just laying my thoughts out and letting other people label them as they want to. There are too many dang labels these days yells-at-cloud

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

just using different words for mind and body, but acknowledging that both are really the same thing: the physical

Anomalous monism

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That's begging the question

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's the only conclusion I can make from the evidence I have seen. I didn't intend for it to be my full reasoning.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago

I wish I could mind my body but I’ve got this problem called dysmorphia

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

My consciousness depends on the physical processes of my body and my environment. Physical processes are selected and changed in my body and my environment due to my consciousness.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

We got a Cartesian dualist here

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

My life is pretty plane.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

Non-reductive naturalist

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The mind is the definition of a subjective experience. Since science is the study of observable phenomenon, and it cannot be observed in others, it's beyond science to study. All the resy is just speculation.

In other words, the world may never know. Count me agnostic

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Can’t argue with that.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Insofar as we've proved anything objectively, or anything in regards to our shared reality, I'm a physicalist. The laws of physics seem to determine, quite conclusively, everything, including mental states.

Insofar as my own subjective, singular, personal experience of being alive goes, I don't know. I'm sure I'm as susceptible to physical influence as anyone, but currently I struggle to imagine how we could physically measure what I currently experience as 'being alive', though I certainly couldn't assert it as impossible. I suspect that "don't know" is the definitively correct answer, but I'm not certain on that yet.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Whatever gets the job done I guess

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I wouldn't call myself a physicalist, but I wouldn't say that what happens in the mind is totally separate from the physical realm either. I'm not a philosophy guy so I assume there's jargon that I just don't know that explains what I believe already, but it's something like this:

The self is an emergent phenomenon of many different things - your brain and its structures, your hormones and how they interact with it, your interactions with others and your perceived place in society, etc. Free will may or may not be part of the phenomenon of the self, but if it does exist then it forms a base-superstructure relationship with the things that created it - so your free will is constrained by, but also has the capacity to change, those aspects.

edit: after skimming wikipedia's article on mind-body-dualism, maybe I do lean towards physicalism actually, because I don't think that the mind is some extra special metaphysical thing.

edit2: oh here's my word of the day: Emergentism

edit3: okay I've seen a dozen variants of this graphic and I wanted to draw my own

I hope this clarifies things.M1 is your starting mental state, M2 is your ending mental state. P1, PA, and PI are your starting physical states, and P2, PB, and PII are your ending physical states. All mental states are emergent from their parallel physical states, and are effected by previous mental and physical states. All physical states must follow from previous physical states, but are effected by previous mental states. The degree to which the mental effects the physical varies depending upon which physical process you're talking about, with some processes being purely deterministic.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

That's graph but its several different ways of making PPB

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

I'm a contradiction by necessity and I think most materialists are.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Our bodies and minds are excellent, but thanks for checking in

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

I'm partial to epiphepenomenamalism. I didn't choose to skip my homework to watch speedrun analysis videos, it was the result of ungovernable physical processes phoenix-smug

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

These days, I don't think it's particularly relevant. It seems like the mind-body problem is a stemlord's attempt to understand the relationship between objectivity and subjectivity. (I see the concept of qualia as a similar attempt). Physicalism is just an attempt at saying that since the mind ultimately stems from interaction with physical and chemical processes, we can develop scientific instruments to measure those processes, and if we can measure those processes, we can finally determine what a person's thinking and reproduce those subjective processes. In other words, we can crack open a person's subjectivity and bring it forth to the realm of objectivity. You see this a lot with stemlords who think that once neuroscience is sufficiently developed, we can basically clone people's personalities. This is their desire behind physicalism.

But an individual's subjectivity can never be breached. It will always be a black box. At a basic level, if you believe only the physical is real, how would you go about physically measuring the stew of chemicals in a person's body without have said measurements physically interfering with the interaction among the stew? It's like if there's an opaque container with volatile fluids of various colors interacting with one another. Cracking open the container to see what colors the volatile fluids are while inside the container is impossible because the act of cracking open the container itself means the volatile fluids are not longer inside a container but exposed to the outside world that would have unattended effects on the colors.

This means calling a person's subjectivity "the soul" or "idiosyncratic stew of chemicals" is mostly a semantic issue. I would use "soul" because it gets the message across and you don't sound like a cringey Reddit atheist.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

The concept of "flesh" Merleau-Ponty was developing in his later writings seems pretty based.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

One of my favorite book series, the new Netflix adaptation was mid though

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Probably something having to do with dialectics. IDK I haven't read Vygotsky yet so ask me again in a few months

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

I tend to think nothing can exist outside the material world and humans aren’t really special, but I saw some things recently that claim to debunk that and I’m not sure what to think of it. I’m an emergentist.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Unlike others here I personally don’t see the need for contradiction between nonduality and communism. I am somewhere around “consciousness is what negates entropy and causes the collapse of the wave function” but I’m not really that well read in the field yet so that’s subject to change

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Look uo the von Neumann-Wigner interpretation

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Will do. I think I may have heard about it before but it’s all kind of fuzzy. Isn’t Everett multiverse the hip new hotness right now?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's gaining popularity yes

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

What are your thoughts on the different interpretations?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Anybody asking this question didn't get shoved into a locker hard enough.