Welcome to the stone age... or the bronze age... or the iron age... heck, anything with an 'age' is welcome, except our modern age or any ages to come.
This is about what the internet was like thousands of years ago back when it all started. Like when Darius the Great hired mercenaries via Craigslist or when Egypt invented emojis.
CODE OF LAWS
1 - Be civil. No name calling, no fighting, keep your flint hand axes inside your leather pouches at all times.
2 - Keep the AI stuff to a minimum. It gets annoying and old fashioned memes are more fun for everyone.
3 - None of this newfangled modern 21st century nonsense. We don't even know what "21st century" means.
4 - No porn/explicit content. The king is sensitive about these things.
5 - No lemmy.world TOS violations will be tolerated. So there.
6 - There is no ~~rule~~ law 6.
Laws of justice which Hammurabi, the wise king, established. A righteous law, and pious statute did he teach the land. Hammurabi, the protecting king am I. I have not withdrawn myself from the men, whom Bel gave to me, the rule over whom Marduk gave to me, I was not negligent, but I made them a peaceful abiding-place. I expounded all great difficulties, I made the light shine upon them. With the mighty weapons which Zamama and Ishtar entrusted to me, with the keen vision with which Ea endowed me, with the wisdom that Marduk gave me, I have uprooted the enemy above and below (in north and south), subdued the earth, brought prosperity to the land, guaranteed security to the inhabitants in their homes; a disturber was not permitted. The great gods have called me, I am the salvation-bearing shepherd, whose staff is straight, the good shadow that is spread over my city; on my breast I cherish the inhabitants of the land of Sumer and Akkad; in my shelter I have let them repose in peace; in my deep wisdom have I enclosed them. That the strong might not injure the weak, in order to protect the widows and orphans, I have in Babylon the city where Anu and Bel raise high their head, in E-Sagil, the Temple, whose foundations stand firm as heaven and earth, in order to bespeak justice in the land, to settle all disputes, and heal all injuries, set up these my precious words, written upon my memorial stone, before the image of me, as king of righteousness.
I know this is going to be an "actually.." post, but I just find it too damn interesting and politically relevant. So, actually stone age tribes got by with 3 around hours of work every day on average.
So why do we have to work so much today to survive? ..yeah, because we're being fucking cheated.
Well... that and there are far too many people on the planet to be supported through a nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Even when you get into the millions, you need agriculture and animal husbandry. And farming and herding is a lot more work.
Oh yeah? Industrial farming gives less food per hour of work than collecting wild nuts? Are you sure about that?
Also, people tend not to die from infections anymore, or starvation (usually). One bad famine doesn't wipe out everyone you know. The vast majority of babies survive to old age and only extremely rarely does a mother die in childbirth.
And the entire population of earth doesn't live around areas where you can forage anymore.
Little things like that
Infectious disease became a lot worse than in hunter gatherer societies since animal husbandry and sendentary living.
Only since the advent of germ theory has it been better.
Okay, so how about medieval peasants also working 7-8 hour days, ~150 days per year?
https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html
I think I remember reading that early agrarians probably worked about 20 hours a week
This is probably a misleading average. Outside of sowing and reaping, farms need pretty much no work
But when they need it, they need A LOT of it
So let me take it easy and do hobbies and participate in the community for 9 months of the year and bust ass writing software for the other 3
Anthropologists at Harvard did an extensive multi-year study of the !Kung San people in southern Africa who still lived by hunting and gathering in the '60s and '70s. Despite living in near-desert conditions, they spent an average of about 17 hours a week in food-related activities. Granted, this yielded a diet of around 1200 calories a day, but they were relatively very small people and this amount was adequate. Mongongo nuts FTW. Whether this lifestyle (and that of other studied modern hunter/gatherers) is generally representative of pre-historic and pre-agricultural humans is an open question, but it's hard to imagine that hunting and gathering in less marginal environments would have required more time and effort - especially when there were a bunch of big hairy elephants you could run off cliffs walking around.
Early agrarians, however, probably had to bust much more ass to make a living, as the farmer's toolkits of domesticated species were not as well-developed as today.
Early agrarians also likely would not have planted the monoculture fields we plant today. They would likely have worked with nature to encourage growth in an easier, more sustainable way. We do things the hard way because we grow with the intention to harvest a specific crop, not just to ensure there's adequate food in your local surroundings.
who still lived by hunting and gathering in the '60s and '70s.
But they still do?
Not so much any more. Even during the Harvard studies they did a lot of trading with neighboring horticultural peoples, sometimes worked for them and white settlers, and received some food aid at times. Today they've been largely resettled and only occasionally engage in traditional hunting and gathering activities.
Even medieval peasants under Feudalism worked less than we do, too.
Lol we decided plumbing and electricity were cool, and that shit takes work
Yeah, but if people only worked essential jobs, and not in stupid competitive ways that only make the owners of some of those companies rich, you could get by with much less work. Think about how wasteful industrial production is, and how many office building skyscrapers and malls are being built just for investors' sakes that are not needed, and often lay empty.
If people only built what is actually needed for good lives, and not for greed, so much manpower would be freed up. Especially if they did it in sustainable ways that wouldn't require everything being torn down or renewed again really soon.
Also, imagine crypto shitcoin peddlers being forced to do useful work like plumbing. There are so many people just getting paid for downright evil or at least useless shit.
This seems like a cool statisti, got the source?
Ancient humans likely worked significantly less than modern humans to meet their basic needs. Studies of hunter-gatherer societies suggest that our ancestors spent around 15-20 hours per week (or about 3 hours per day) on work related to survival[1][3].
The Jo/'hoansi people of the Kalahari Desert, for example, spent only about 15 hours a week acquiring food and resources[3]. This left them with ample time for leisure activities like socializing, storytelling, and artistic pursuits.
This pattern of limited work hours appears to have been common for most of human history. For about 95% of our species' existence, humans likely worked these shorter hours[2][4]. The shift to longer work weeks came much later with the agricultural and industrial revolutions.
Anthropologist James Suzman argues that hunter-gatherer societies were generally well-fed and content, with longer life expectancies than many early agricultural societies[4]. The abundance of free time allowed for rich cultural and social lives.
It's important to note that while daily work hours were limited, life wasn't always easy. Infant mortality was high, and people faced other challenges. However, in terms of work-life balance, our ancestors may have had an advantage over many modern humans[3][4].
This historical perspective raises questions about our current work culture and whether we could benefit from reconsidering our relationship with work and leisure in the modern world.
Citations: [1] Humans once worked just 3 hours a day. Now we're ... - Big Think https://bigthink.com/big-think-books/vicki-robin-joe-dominguez-your-money-or-your-life/ [2] For 95 Percent of Human History, People Worked 15 hours a Week ... https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/qbgihm/for_95_percent_of_human_history_people_worked_15/ [3] Our ancestors worked less and had better lives. What are we doing ... https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/our-ancestors-worked-less-and-had-better-lives-what-are-we-doing-wrong/ [4] For 95 Percent of Human History, People Worked 15 Hours a Week ... https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/for-95-percent-of-human-history-people-worked-15-hours-a-week-could-we-do-it-again.html [5] Customary naps, more holidays, less work pressure: Did our ... https://www.tbsnews.net/thoughts/customary-naps-more-holidays-less-work-pressure-did-our-ancestors-have-better-work-weeks
Please always provide sources with such information. Otherwise such interesting content is quite useless and you have to just skip whole chain
Some unsung hero in this thread actually provided the source where I got it from, but yeah, I agree
(Laziness won me over though)
Eh, they didn't have clothes, microwave food, video games, air conditioning, cars, air travel, days off, or healthcare though. No ty
That's not what we would have to give up, what we would have to give up is a small portion of the population globe-trotting 24/7 on private jets and buying yachts for their yachts.
You're fellating robber-barons and buying into the bullshit propaganda that without our hugely unequal economic system you wouldn't be allowed to have a computer.
A lot of those are out of reach for many as well still due to cost, or non existent (healthcare). I’m in a pretty stable point in my life and even I get scared by the electric bills related to heating and cooling. Growing up I recall the only option was to go to the mall since we could not afford AC.
came to see what the comments were as the same thing was going through my head.
The comments leave something to be desired imo
Yeah, a lot of capitalist realism, the way we do things now is the best possible way we could be doing them bullshit. No vision whatsoever.
It's so ingrained in people, we have such an uphill battle as progressives. People worship capitalism like a deity. If it doesn't get its sacrifices we'll have droughts and famine!
Ha. You no smart. Make children pick berries. Men and women go hunt. Leave children with sticks in case of saber-toothed tiger. Children get eaten? Make more children.
you big smart
Me also figure out if set forest on fire, cave fire can go out and you can get more next day.
my ADHD would have reigned supreme as a hunter-gatherer.
I'm not planning to pick berries tomorrow, but if I walk by a berry patch, my hyperfixation might just kick right in. especially since I get to eat the berries as I gather them, it's just dopamine all over the place
Why can I spend the entire day fishing and be fine, but 5 minutes of picking berries is my limit?
Hate Moondays
I would invent agriculture just to be able to continue being lazy.