this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024

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176

Hi Lemmy, what's a good IP camera with night vision and no vendor lock-in? (gregtech.eu)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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It would be amazing if it doesn't disintegrate if it rains, too.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The comments here are interesting, as I'm helping with a project developing the software stack for mini servers we hope to sell that are preconfigured with Home Assistant (home automation) and Frigate NVR (camera control and recording) with local storage, local control, and no cloud component.

The hardware we're using for prototyping are off-lease Dell 7050 Micros running Proxmox, with 500gb Crucial MX500 ssds and an NVME Coral TPU that Frigate uses for object detection, which reduces CPU usage. 500gb is enough, because Frigate can be set to auto delete recorded clips after a set period of time, and clips can easily be saved.

Frigate can be installed via docker or as an add-on to Home Assistant. If you want to use Home Assistant, you can install Home Assistant OS directly on the SSD via these instructions.

We're using Amcrest WiFi cameras (IP4M-1041B) that connect to an on-board WiFi network controlled by an OpenWRT VM that uses the WiFi card in the system (not the ones that come with the Dells). Everything on our systems is locked down by an Opnsense firewall vm, so it should be safe to use even in an existing unsecured network.

Personally, for my own system, I've been running 4 Amcrest ethernet turret cameras (IP5M-T1179EW) for about 4 years now with no problems. You just need a cheap PoE switch (mine was $20) and then run some cables.

To use Frigate, the cameras must support both ONVIF and RTSP. Pro tip: the Amcrest Smart Home line of cameras won't work - you need a camera with a built-in web server for direct configuration.

For remote access, you could set up Wireguard (via an official Home Assistant add-on), or you could pay Nabu Casa (Home Assistant's parent company) $65/year (or 75 EUR), enter your credentials in the Home Assistant app and you're good to go, while helping fund future Home Assistant development.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

You are my kind of admin, so, any suggestions on hardware that use starlight sensors? Or anything comparable in low light with color?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Good question! starlight/night color cameras generally just have larger CMOS sensors to capture more light, OR they integrate an LED "spotlight" into the camera housing to increase the amount of light available to the sensor, and if that's not enough, the IR will kick in. Sometimes the sensor IS actually larger, and sometimes it isn't.

We've standardized on Amcrest cameras, and while we haven't actually tested it, Amcrest does have a "night color" outdoor turret camera that appears to support both ONVIF and RTSP, for the same price as the "regular" turret camera. The model number is IP5M-T1277EW-AI.

If it's like other similar Amcrest cameras, you can likely disable the AI stuff via the built-in configuration, especially if you have Frigate doing that for you.

Personally, I prefer a solution that uses a regular IP camera and a separate smart light (or regular light on a smart plug) that kicks on when motion or a tagged object is detected, which will then cause the camera to switch from black and white IR to color, usually in about a second. The separate light will give you a much better image than anything you'll get from a built-in LED or slightly larger sensor, in my opinion.

Home Assistant and Frigate make it easy to set up this kind of automation, and the "regular" Amcrest cameras have pretty good IR, so Frigate has no problem running detection on those feeds. The automation is basically "if a cat is detected on the garage camera, turn on the garage lights for x minutes".

Hope that helps!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

Thanks, I'm currently using some RTSP modded WyzeV3s with HA and some custom ffmpeg scripts. Just wondering about other options.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Kudos to the guy sharing his expertise for free while working on something similar they're trying to profit from

[–] [email protected] 7 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Thanks! Since our entire software stack is open source, and since open source software has been so transformative for our lives in general, it's a priority for us to give back where we can.

The profit will come from labor involved in assembling the hardware, pre-configuring the software for each customer, and providing personalized support via a set of subscription support plans at various prices, including individual one-offs.

We'll be dedicating a set amount of time every day to read support forums for the software we use (and places like Lemmy) and provide help where we can.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

That is a really cool concept, I'd wish more tech companies would do that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Very refreshing to see.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

What is the name or your project? I'm interested in being a customer. When do you hope to have the first product released?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

We are not quite ready to roll everything out yet -it'll probably be another 2 or 3 months, but I'd be happy to shoot you a message when we go live if you'd like.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Yes please, add me to your waiting list

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

Done! Thanks for the interest!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I'm interested as well - family members have been looking for a while, and they keep finding products that I deem as... low-quality, for one reason or another, and my requirements are basically aligned with what you are building.

Please let me know when your solution goes live :D

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago

I will definitely add you to the list. And yeah, an older family member living far away who fell is the reason we started this project. We wanted to be able keep an eye on her (and allow other family members to do the same), but there wasn't anything available that met our requirements, either price or privacy-wise, so we built something and preconfigured it, including a Lubuntu VM with a Mesh Central agent installed that we could use for remote access and troubleshooting for the entire system. This has been super useful, and is the basis of our support model.

If a support package is purchased, we'll ship the device with a support VM installed that is shut down at all times EXCEPT when a specific (included) USB key is inserted into a specific USB port (the only USB-C port, located on the front of the device). This starts the support VM, at which point we would be able to remote in to check the system and fix any issues. The VM shuts down again when the USB key is removed, or after a set period of time, like an hour. This will allow us to ship the device and/or cameras to an older or non-tech savvy person and WE can provide them with support so YOU don't have to.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I'd appreciate a message when you go live! People like you are amazing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

Will do! And thanks, that means a lot!

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I use cheap and cheerful cameras with Ingenic SOCs and flash an open source firmware thingino on them.

List of supported cameras increases fairly rapidly

[–] [email protected] 1 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

Thanks for the trip. Any recommendations for best value for money hardware?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 day ago (2 children)

If you consider alternatives beyond out-of-the-shelf, I'd recommend your own DIY IP camera. A Raspberry Pi (or something similar, such as Orange Pi), an IR camera module, an UPS and a protective shell case are the minimal hardware requirements for a cheap camera built by yourself. You'll have total control over the software, you'll be allowed to choose the OS, the software, every aspect of the camera, something that's not possible with out-of-the-shelf IP cameras.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I've had four cameras running for a few years, streaming over RTSP and powered over ethernet. Works well!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Is this something a complete novice could do, with reasonable effort and cost? If so would you be able to eli5, or point me in the direction of somewhere that does?

Ideally, for my current situation anyway, I'd like to set up a camera indoors by a window (with IR switched off and a proper mount) and be able to see what it sees from a device (phone pc or even dedicated pad if it helps with security) in the other room, and if it can also record and save the video locally for me to be able to access from the remote device, that'd be good too. Privacy and security of the data are top priority.

Every time I start looking in to it my brain gets completely overwhelmed by options and information and scrambles, and I have to back away 😑 I'd love for there to be a way to set this up that was near as straightforward as the privacy abusing options..

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I self-host and dabble with this stuff. Im an engineer for more than a decade.

But I really struggled to find a solution that has a really high uptime with minimal maintenance. Ive set up some raspberry pi projects, including cams. Why would I want video to transfer to some company?

But the trade offs were significant. Every few weeks, there was a new problem. Maybe my router. Maybe my internet. Maybe the Pi. Maybe something else. Maybe it's my VPN when I'm trying to dial into the network. Maybe it's my phone app no longer seeing the device. Maybe a update broke it. Maybe God hated me that day.

After six months and spending 2-3 hours a month maintaining it, I burned out and just bought an off-the-shelf solution with a mobile app.

Of course, I only use it for security and it doesn't exist in the house. It grosses me out, but it's been two years of plug-and-play and just working without setup.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Argh, this is exactly the scenario that I've anticipated and has kept me away from similar (home automation as well).

That's what I want, high reliability, local only storage, remote view of some kind, and minimal (ongoing) fuss. Sounds like you did not quite land on that if the thing you bought grosses you out? Or do you mean something different?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You nailed it!

What grosses me out is that to get all those features, I have to be okay with my video data potentially landing in the hands of some company using it train AI or something.

Eufy was caught recently doing that. (And it's my current solution for remote home camera system)

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It's not too difficult, I figured it out and I eat crayons.

Here's the software I use but there are other options: https://github.com/BreeeZe/rpos - That runs on the camera Pi and provides the video stream.

I use a Pi, a camera module like this https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-high-quality-camera/ and a suitable lens. You can get cheaper camera modules, IR modules, etc.

Also, something like this to power it: https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-networking/omada-switch-unmanaged/ds105gp/ You could just use a regular switch and power the Pi with a power adapter if that works better. My cameras are all ceiling mounted so having one cable for data and power made sense for me.

I use this to split the ethernet into power and data when it reaches the Pi: https://www.amazon.com/UCTRONICS-PoE-Splitter-USB-C-Compliant/dp/B087F4QCTR/130-2310467-3870744

Then I have this running on a Linux VM to collect the camera feeds and display them in a web browser: https://github.com/motioneye-project/motioneye

You'll also need a case, my solution was to buy a metal Pi case and mount the module onto that, feeding the ribbon cable back into the case.

If you decide to go ahead and need help, just ask.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Oh wow, thanks so much for all the info, I really appreciate it! I'm bookmarking you reply and all the links, but it's a bit much for me to process right now lol (I saw your comment about pretty much what I want to set up and just had to ask, fully meaning to get in to it, but it's been a long morning and my brain is now mush)

Just to give you an idea, I've never set up or even used a Pi or used Linux, I've done very basic pc building and troubleshooting, but have no programming knowledge, so when I said novice I meant it 😂 I'm mostly good at following directions as long as they're clear. Are there any manuals that would tell me how to put all the different parts you mentioned together?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yes, this.

And prob not what op is looking for but I also have a bunch of esp32 cams, different PCBs and with different sensors/lenses.

They ain't much but also cost like 3 monies with shipping (and is enough to eg normally recognise people etc).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

I use amcrest with my nas

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Axis makes good (the best) IP cams, I use them commercially, they're pretty much the gold standard. Super fucking expensive though so probably not worth it for home use but you might be able to pick up something 2nd hand.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I've had great experience with Axis in the past. However in the past they used to have planned obsolescence where the flash they used had a very limited number of write cycles. With the Linux based OS they run it writes to the flash all the time. This would cause the thing to start dropping writes and misbehave. When ran 24/7 they usually died after about 4 years. The place I worked at just threw them away and replaced them whenever that happened, to not have downtime for cameras. Once I asked if I could have a couple to diagnose the fault and I found out the flash was out of write cycles on all of them. Maybe they are better nowadays, but it was pretty fucked up to see such expensive cameras be destroyed because of a few cents of flash.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Anything that supports ONVIF. I like Hikvision for their quality, price, and web interface for setup. But don't trust any IP camera. Make sure the Mac and or IP address is blocked at your router.

There are different night visions to pick from. There's ir night vision and white led lit night vision. I prefer ir night vision because I don't want visible led lights on all night. You get a better picture at night although its black and white.

However many color night vision cameras do really well without any light source at all. I tried both and it's more of a preference so I can't say which one will work for you.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Reconsider hikvision: they were recently dropped as an option for many organizations due to some new data leak, and removed from gov buildings in a number of countries.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

And that's why you don't let them contact the Internet.

Managing IoT risk is an easy no brainer if people bother to try.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

you shouldn't block them by MAC. you should put them on a VLAN dedicated to cams, with no route to the internet. only computer connected to it is your NVR

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Yes vlan is best.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

I have reolink and use them with my NAS. Been happy with them!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I only have the indoor one, but Reolink is fine. Used it as a baby cam. No cloud bs, supports an rtsp stream. App has gone downhill, but due to rtsp I sort of don't care.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Similar product, different experience: I tried their doorbell and found it to be way underpowered once I turned on ONVIF. Huge, expanding lag between real world and camera feed. 20fps max is very oof too, even if you are going to use their protocol and software. And it doesn't work with physical chime boxes, so you have to use their plug-in chime or botch a converter together yourself.

Was really excited (trying to replace a nest doorbell) and then so, so disappointed once I got it. Their other cams might be fine but oof, the experience put me off.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I've used a ton of ubiquity unifi cameras and they have a solid range on pricing. I think you need the unifi software to commission them though. For what it's worth they don't use the cloud for storage and don't require any sort of subscription.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Ubiquity is the definition of vendor lock in.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (6 children)

Right. I only mentioned them because they don't require a sub and you can store everything locally.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

Dahua makes good stuff. Their products are commonly sold under different generic brand names too, but they're all good

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Another vote for Reolink, especially the models with ONVIF support.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I've been looking for the same thing, everything usually points to frigate being the answer, but it seems like a bit of work to get everything set up.

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