No shit?!
The writing was on the wall when they ignored voters moving towards the Democratic Socialist. The money was more important.
Populism is relatively easy, even when that populist is a fascist.
this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
371 points (98.2% liked)
politics
19103 readers
3473 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
How do you construct a worker's party in a country where corporate bribery has been made legal and there is a class of billionaires ready and eager to squash any legitimate improvement to worker's living conditions with their nearly unlimited power/capital? They literally own the means of state and media propaganda, and the means of state violence to protect our beloved economy from the society that exists in subservient subsistence to it.
I vote blue out of harm reduction, but there's no escape in the US without necessary complete governmental and economic collapse. It is too well corrupted into protecting capital over people. I think in the desire for perpetual stability for the sake of commerce/profit, something vital was simply discarded in the modern nation state model:
The renewal that can only come from the collapse of the past.
I'm all for it. The Democrats have been a joke since they fucked Bernie. They're terrible and don't give a shit about their voters.
Oh, they were a joke long before that. In 2006, when we went from having a congress that rubber stamped everything Bush wanted to a congress that said they were displeased with Bush as they rubber stamped everything he wanted.
load more comments
(5 replies)
To be clear to the naysayers: It's not that we're angry Bernie got fucked, it is what it is. We've just seen the writing on the wall SINCE he got screwed over.
Also we're a little angry.
I wonder if it's just a bit of an overreaction to draw conclusions about the Democratic Party when the difference between Kamala and donvict is < 2%, the Democrats ran a VP after Biden dropped out very late in the election cycle without any primary, incumbents the world over are getting voted out, the candidate was a woman in a nation full of misogyny, AND people have this perception about inflation (that is mostly wrong).
Anyone going to factor that in at all?
Democrats also put themselves in a position where the only choice was a vp candidate who was the least popular candidate 4 years ago and only became VP because Biden promised a woman of color.
The fact that the difference between Kamala and convict was so small is enough grounds by itself imo
Say it casually how Biden dropped out very late in the election cycle. He just decided to drop out. Not like the party forced him to drop out or anything. Got some wolves in the party it seems.
the party is hopelesslty corrupted and wont even acknowledge why they lost. Its time to dump the dems and build up a progressive party.
This video shows why that may well likely have to be done within the democratic party itself. The information in that video is of central importance to a plan like to get progressivism on its feet.
That would be after FPTP voting is replaced with RCV or STAR in all 50 states. Trying a third party before those steps will hand the federal government to the GOP for the remainder of my life.
load more comments
(10 replies)
Absolutely this.
How many times are we gonna be Charlie Brown trying to kick the football before Lucy pulls the ball away?
This party isn't here for us. They do not represent our best interests. They simply care about the ruling class/ultra wealthy.
They have purposely not followed through on their campaign promises so many times. Time to dump them.
DNC isn't getting my vote anymore. Time for a new party.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(6 replies)
We've had several elections in recent memory where it's been really clear that progressive Democrats win elections compared to centrists (mostly midterm elections but still). Somehow that lesson hasn't stuck, and I wouldn't be surprised if Harris' defeat also doesn't teach this lesson. At this point the old guard really just needs to die.
People want change, GOP is offering it and people are eating it up. They just have no idea how incredibly stupid that version of change is.
They just have no idea how incredibly stupid that version of change is.
Yeah, when they find out that things like vaccines might be up for grabs they might be in for a real ride.
The fact that it is even a POSSIBILITY is sheer insanity. If donvict had excess deaths during Covid [1], letting a dumbfuck loser like brainworms ban them would kill even more. This time it'd be kids as well as the very old, most likely. Needless, excess death.
And that's just the start on this loser's notion of "change" that we might get...
[1] A bit of a joke. The policy failures of donvict killed nearly half a million Americans.
Seriously. I don't care that much about fluoride in the water being removed for four years, but I'm quite grateful that my youngest is getting the last of his vaccines before January. Hopefully it just ends up a "states rights" thing. Still sucks for herd immunity but at least I'll still be able to keep my family vaccinated.
Still sucks for herd immunity but at least I’ll still be able to keep my family vaccinated.
I suppose. Some states are already in a bad way, like PA: https://www.altoonamirror.com/news/local-news/2024/09/pa-vaccine-exemptions-raises-fear-of-outbreak/
Having a dipshit like RFK being validated, nevermind actually setting policy, is going to set this nation even further backwards.
Indeed. Lending any legitimacy to his conspiracy theories is a bad thing. True of Trump and Musk as well, as with any of that clown car.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Or, now hear me out, Socialism.
Absolutely. Just don't use that word. The propaganda is so goddamn ingrained in the American psyche we might as well just call it something else and try to bypass that fight.
Hand companies over to their workers, call it supercapitalism, and Americans will eat that shit up
"Blue collar capitalism"
"true capitalism" or some shit
Disparage actual capitalism for not being capitalist enough, and do an Indiana Jones hot swap for the actual end goal of worker ownership.
The freedom to eat, the freedom to earn a fair day's pay for a fair day's honest work, the freedom to afford a house, the freedom from wall street usury, the freedom patriotically build secure and supportive communities, freedom healthcare, protecting the landscape of the greatest country on earth for all of America's generations to come, etc.
Loads of ways to spin free market socialism, take your pick.
load more comments
(17 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Reconstruct?
Raize it with impunity and forge something actually good
The Party for Socialism and Liberation is attempting to do just that.
load more comments
(9 replies)
I think its time to deconstruct it tbh. Name's tainted and "neither" has been the most popular candidate for the past 3 election cycles now. People are itching for a new party to support that doesn't make them feel like their vote is worthless
This would imply years of (effectively) being out of power. Even if by some miracle you would win the presidential election, you would have no local infrastructure to build on. It would give the GOP effective power in many states for an another decade.
On the other hand, look at how easy it was for Trump to completely hijack the GOP. That’s the model you should aim for.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(4 replies)
Good. A party that is not beholden to its constituents has no business running for office.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Dems didn't "lose" the working class. Misinformation overshadowed the message.
There's a lot the Dems can do for unions and working-class normal folks. But Kamala could have cured cancer with a touch and they wouldn't have believed it because everything else they consume downplays the improving economy, security and stability under Biden so it was ultimately useless.
Buckets of roubles on Facebook and X won this election.
The Dems began bleeding the working class after Carter.
The problem is that - outside of Obama in 2008 (who campaigned as left of Clinton), and Sanders in 2016 and 2020 - there have been almost ZERO efforts to court the increasingly jaded and apathetic working class voters who have to work harder and harder every cycle only to be disappointed by the candidate they believed in not following through with decreasingly attractive policy proposals.
Again, she wasn’t TERRIBLE, and no matter how disconnected she was, she would have been > than 🍊… but her team had her trotting out LIZ CHENEY over allowing a Palestinian to speak on stage at the DNC.
This idea that there was NOTHING she could have done to win over the small percentage of apathetic voters to push her over the edge is simply not true.
The enthusiasm from the Democratic base disappeared shortly after the campaign backed off the sort of initial good decisions they started off with (like choosing Walz and letting him call Rs weird).
…And then the overpaid completely disconnected party consultants just kept pushing her to move all the way to the right as much as she possibly could under the delusion that THIS time (like Clinton tried) we could get the R cultists to come out and vote for her… I mean they had a literal billionaire Mark Cuban excited for their candidacy.
The DNC has completely abandoned the working class. It's not misinformation. They simply do not care about us.
load more comments
(4 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
You can reconstruct the Democrat party all you want. It won't make stupid Americans smart. They'll still fall for whoever is best at peddling misinformation, fear, and hate.
The internet and media in general has been weaponized. So unless we're talking about the Democrat party learning how to go low and spread extreme misinformation and paranoia in order to win an election, then we're just wasting our time talking.
So unless we’re talking about the Democrat party learning how to go low and spread extreme misinformation and paranoia in order to win an election
And even if they did decide to do this? How are they going to counter the massive disinformation networks the qons the qon-adjacent run? I mean, WashPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC - all run by the corporate-friendly that will kneecap Democrats to get goodies handed out to them. Then there is Facebook, Xitter, Youtube - all skewed to the qons. And that's not even getting into local news being completely fucked (Sinclair), outlets like Faux and OAN, along with hate radio, and then the broverse on podcasts, YT channels...
The Democratic Party and/or the progressives have nothing even anywhere close to the coordinated and well-funded campaign the qons have...
Totally agree.
The bottom line is Democrats aren't going to win a misinformation campaign against Republicans because of the reasons you brought up and because they simply aren't as amoral as Republicans are.
It really is up to Americans to be mature, informed, responsible voters who aren't susceptible to misinformation. And that simply isn't going to happen. Especially not now that we've given total control to a party that ran on deconstructing the public education system.
Realistically, from my personal, pessimistic point of view....we're completely and utterly fucked and will probably see a steady decline in this country for the remainder of our lives.
How would that even work? They are doing exactly what their ~~owners~~ donors want.
Are they saying that rich people should want unions or that there needs to be other ways to fund politics?
view more: next ›