this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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MODERATORS
 

Hello comrades. In the interest of upholding our code of conduct - specifically, rule 1 (providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all) - we felt it appropriate to make a statement regarding the lionization of Luigi Mangione, the alleged United Healthcare CEO shooter, also known as "The Adjuster."

In the day or so since the alleged shooter's identity became known to the public, the whole world has had the chance to dig though his personal social media accounts and attempt to decipher his political ideology and motives. What we have learned may shock you. He is not one of us. He is a "typical" American with largely incoherent, and in many cases reactionary politics. For the most part, what is remarkable about the man himself is that he chose to take out his anger on a genuine enemy of the proletariat, instead of an elementary school.

This is a situation where the art must be separated from the artist. We do not condemn the attack, but as a role model, Luigi Mangione falls short. We do not expect perfection from revolutionary figures either, but we expect a modicum of revolutionary discipline. We expect them not simply to identify an unpopular element of society hitler-detector , but to clearly illuminate the causes of oppression and the means by which they are overcome. When we canonize revolutionary figures, we are holding them up as an example to be followed.

This is where things come back to rule 1. Mangione has a long social media history bearing a spectrum of reactionary viewpoints, and interacting positively with many powerful reactionary figures. While some commenters have referred to this as "nothing malicious," by lionizing this man we effectively deem this behavior acceptable, or at the very least, safe to ignore. This is the type of tailism which opens the door to making a space unsafe for marginalized people.

We're going to be more strict on moderating posts which do little more than lionize the shooter. There is plenty to be said about the unfolding events, the remarkably positive public reaction, how public reactions to "propaganda of the deed" may have changed since the historical epoch of its conception (and how the strategic hazards might not have), and many other aspects of the news without canonizing this man specifically. We can still dance on the graves of our enemies and celebrate their rediscovered fear and vulnerability without the vulgar revisionism needed to pretend this man is some sort of example of Marxist or Anarchist practice.

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[–] [email protected] 65 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

Did you guys check if yamagami had good politics before you officially lionized him on Hexbear? Or are you just navel gazing because Luigi is American?

[–] [email protected] 47 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Dorner, doohickey guy, Teddy K, even arguably Aaron Bushnell being a US service member who directly aided in US imperialism, all had shitty takes and were adventurists who didn't directly overthrow the system as is through a systemic mass movement based around the materialist principles of Marxism. I do not care about Luigi that much one way or the other than it's funny an Italian guy blasted an evil mfer in the middle of NYC. it's just the flavour of the month news story and the mods demanding you post correctly about it with very little actual explaination of what that means leading to week long bans over not being the principled reading club of the vanguard again. one mans taillism is anothers propaganda of the deed, and discussion around that should be allowed as it is with the aformentioned people we literally have emojis of.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I have no problem with people going around saying this guy isn't Lenin or whatever, they are right. I just don't think this post was warranted, and if anything, its going to prolong this whole thing. Also there is of course the lack of consistency on who gets to be "lionized".

[–] [email protected] 33 points 6 days ago (1 children)

for sure. a mod statement with mass action blows it way out of proportion. genuinely just wait like a month and few people will talk about this at all

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 days ago

Evidently the fedmins need to shut down the discussion quicker than that

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 days ago (1 children)

just for what its worth nobody got a week long ban for luigiposting, there was one handed out for hostility and DM harassment.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

ok that's fair, I hadn't learnt about that. thank you for informing me! yeah that is a justified mod action

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 6 days ago (1 children)

assad-must-stay

who-must-go

must-go

assad-pogger

It's almost like there's no consistency in the moderation and scolding

[–] [email protected] 40 points 6 days ago

Mod responses on hexbear seem to be entirely based on which mods are awake and active in chat at any given time lol

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 6 days ago (4 children)

The fact that if the guy had been a leftist this whole debate would vanish is all one needs to know if this is actually a debate worth BANNING PEOPLE OVER, shove the hammer up your asses you're actively making the site worse far more than whatever lionizing is happening

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 6 days ago

511 comments

what-the-hell

Death to America

[–] [email protected] 28 points 6 days ago

Kinda unrelated, but the kind of person who cries about their post being removed for lionizing a problematic guy with paragraphs of justifation for why it being removed was an affront to all true leftists everywhere and how this site is literally 1984, are the same kind of people who seem to think their opinions are the most valid of opinions and people NEED TO see them, and the real injustice is the censoring of their enlightened takes.

Some of y'all need to separate the ego from your posting.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 6 days ago

There is a very easy way to avoid all of this. Just celebrate the killing of a CEO. Stop talking about Luigi jfc

[–] [email protected] 28 points 6 days ago

Good take overall. A lot of people (myself included) wanted this guy to be some sort of leftist hero. Even though it sucks to find out he was just an average american dude with kinda shitty beliefs, we should accept reality as it is and not try to pretend otherwise. We can think of it as a small victory that even someone who's seemingly not very class conscious could be driven to an action like this. That, along with the amount of support this got, still makes me feel much more hopeful about building a left-wing movement in the west than I was a couple weeks ago.

For the most part, what is remarkable about the man himself is that he chose to take out his anger on a genuine enemy of the proletariat, instead of an elementary school.

This part I find maybe a bit tasteless. Even though I agree we shouldn't glorify the guy, I do think he deserves some sympathy for what he did and the undoubtedly awful punishment he's going to be sentenced to, and I don't think it's fair to compare him to a school shooter. I don't think anything indicates that he's the kind of person capable of something like that.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Fuck you fed ass admins

How many figures that are praised here have problematic views? how many of those have those have a pinned post about their lionisation??

Luigi Mangione is a Hero, Unequivocally

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Literally following the CIA playbook on how to wreck nascent orgs by quashing any revolutionary potential with irrelevant discussions designed to waste time and sow discord

[–] [email protected] 30 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

This website has no revolutionary potential

its a website

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago (2 children)

We praise Stalin despite his homophobia, we praise Hamas, but that's Stalin and Hamas. A single white adventurist in the imperial core, in 2024, who retweets posts mocking trans people, we don't need to hero worship this guy among ourselves, at that point it starts to feel like we're trivializing his reactionary views. When you're out recruiting, say whatever you want, but on hexbear, for the sake of other people's comfort, try to have some nuance. That's all this mod post is asking for.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 days ago (2 children)

based principled leftist dorner

based principled leftist yamagami

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Dorner / the guy who killed Shinzo were memed. Luigi was memed. But what we didn't have with the first two was this tendency to try to latch on to them and claim them, and combat other factions trying to do the same. The takeaway should be that vigilante justice against the ruling class is apparently more popular than ever. When we are getting into the weeds trying to fight over whether an individual spontaneous event was done by our guy or not, it is pure navel gazing. We aren't doing shit. We are so fucking deep in the couch, just spectating.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

when are we just gonna make a struggle session mega. if we can have a news mega, we can have a struggle session mega imo

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

I have been struggling to think of how to say this constructively but it feels wrong to be mad a guy that did intresting and good things for posting badly. Like, we all post badly. That is why we are here. I think I have seen this emotion in the comments but I am not sure it ever worked out. We have an nearly unprecedented moment of clas solidarity and good vibes so it feels real bad to be upsets about posts at the moment. Especially as the posts don't seem relevant to the moment. So while the take is probably correct I haven't seen any discourse where it would be relevant or good to actually point it out. When someone says how cool the Luigi guy was doing a cool bit if asventurism it doesn't feel relevant to put him down for stuff not in his manifesto. Posting is not praxis. So there is a lower bound for how much posting can be the opposite of praxis. I feel like that is divisive and self defeating in a moment when we should be trying to do something with all this revolutionary energy. We appear to have half a thousand posts of people trying a dialectic process here but I am not sure we are approaching synthesis

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

Especially as the posts don't seem relevant to the moment.

Right, like even among conservatives the discourse isn’t so much “this was based because he’s an epic bacon STEMlord like us”, it’s “I don’t feel bad for Brian after all the shit health insurance companies have put me through”

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 6 days ago

The megathreadification of Hexbear seems to be an inevitable process.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago

that is, if he's the adjuster

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago
[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

This circles back to those big questions about “site culture.” But is Hexbear a site for leftist users to shitpost or is Hexbear a site for leftist shitposts?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

so if hexbear is just a shitposting forum it shouldn't matter if we are cool right? its not gonna contribute to the revolution or effect anything right?

ok then, this should be a safe space for poc where their comfort is prioritized. who cares about looking cool? who cares about appealing to the average American shithead if this is just a shitposting forum?

ok lets say hexbear is a very serious site that is going to influence American politics. ok (its not) but sure. then shouldn't we be developing a better politic. shouldn't we be holding ourselves to a higher standard then? shouldnt we be denouncing including bigots into "the left"

so yeah the whole "this is a shit posting forum we dont have to care about minorities here" doesn't make any sense

also, i fucking DARE anyone to scroll through the em poc com right now and tell me the poc hexbears are not deeply annoyed by yalls white bullshit

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I think what people don't actually get here is that this event is part of a trend of poc users concerns getting outright dimissed and when poc users voice those concerns they get shouted down by the white userbase. And again i want to say that while all this was happening a white man got acquitted for killing a black man on a public subway yet white hexbears have spent all thier energy trying to lionize luigi.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago (10 children)

Do you guys have any serious plan to do anything ever?

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I have never seen the word tailism in my life until this thread.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 days ago

It’s also not applicable here. It’s just the mods throwing in a leftist sounding word to justify their position post-hoc.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 days ago

Maybe it’s time to learn something

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