this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023

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Toyota has built an EV with a fake transmission, and we’ve driven it (arstechnica.com)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

66 comments fedilink hide all child comments

It sounds bizarre but I want to try it.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 10 months ago (3 children)

In 20 years or less this will sound as stupid as if some "innovator" of the early automobile days had added a galloping motion to car seats or a lever you could pull to dump fake manure in the middle of the road.

Look, I really enjoy driving a car with a manual transmission, and I will probably own one until they are as expensive to own as a horse is currenrly. But I can't for the life of me imagine why someone would take a system that has none of the disadvantages of a manual transmission system, and... add them back in a completely superficial way for some reason.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

Yeah, I've driven manual transmissions my whole life and recently got a leaf, there's no reason to add all this crap to it to make it more fun. It's the most responsive car I've ever driven and I mostly drive it in "less fun mode"

I could see having a "transmission" in something like a rivian, but more as something for off-roading or carrying heavy loads to give you more control of your speed and rather than mimicking a sports car.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Can I get the "fake" manure feature on my current car? The ability to have my car take a shit would be hilarious!

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I don't think I like it. No judgement for others but I don't like cars with fake vents and I'm sure I won't like cars with fake transmissions.

I think there is value in a transmission in EVs. While they don't really need under gears they do need overdrive to get better highway mileage. And I imagine if we put weaker engines we could use under gears to get the performance with less of a power drain.

Some cars first gear is over 3:1 while others it's closer to 2:1.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Porsche Taycan has a two speed gearbox, primarily so it can cruise at autobahn speeds without impacting acceleration. Efficiency benefits only work if the extra weight of the gearbox and transmission losses aren't more than the range gained .

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-car-two-speed-transmission-gearbox/

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

This is what I was imagining to start with!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (11 children)

You won't gain anything meaningful from an overdrive with electric motors, they don't need to be kept in a small rpm band to not lose efficiency

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[+] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (7 children)

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Fords been doing it for a long time already, emulate engine noise through the speakers to make it sound peppier.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

They also put plastic tubing and piping to direct the exhaust in the noisiest way possible. I remember when I heard they were doing the sound thing it was in conjunction with a plastic motor component that was effectively shaped like a saxophone that was supposed to produce a superior engine sound.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Intake manifold, but yes.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

That's not even just an EV thing. Multiple cars like the golf R or even some ford mustangs use a way to amplify or create engine noises for the driver. Wiki page

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I hate that too!

I've seen a few gas cars that do that and videos that talk about how to disable it. I feel like I'd rather just a better exhaust. My car has a variable exhaust that overrides my choice at lower speeds and it annoys me.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This is so dumb. A manual transmission is one way to solve for the power band of ICEs. EVs don't have this issue. Why create it?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Fun.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Yeah, let's be honest - your average manual car driver chose that transmission for one reason - fun. And there's really no reason it wouldn't apply here. Manual transmissions have been "pointless" from a purely practical view for years, especially with autostick being a thing. But people like them because they're fun to drive, and some people like being more involved with their driving experience.

Tldr; let people have their fun, it's not like this is ever going to be standard - you'll never be forced to buy one lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Maintenance/cost. New autos, especially CVTs, are no fun to work on, and if you need to replace one, you'll be shelling out way more cash than if you had to replace a 5/6 speed. I agree that most people in NORTH AMERICA buy manuals for fun, but in many other places it's a different story.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

If modern cheap cars used good transmissions there'd be no need for manual. But man.. I am still super annoyed by anything that isn't A dual-clutch transmission.

I want power instantly.

The only way to get that is EV or manual transmission.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

The traditional reason for a manual was fuel and oil efficiency which was kinda miserable when automatic transmissions came up. However this reason has been long turned around where automatics are certainly more efficient.

Even in europe manual usage is dwindling.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Ngl I feel like falling asleep when I drive an automatic car. I'm not even a car bro or anything. I just think if I'm gonna have to drive a lot, it may as well be more engaging to my monkey brain

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

But there’s nothing to engage, nothing to do. They just add a momentary drop of power like you’d hear in an automatic. You’re not taking any action. There’s no skill to develop. There’s no fun to be had

I like appreciating the wonders of the machine as they are. I love driving a stick and revel in the sudden revs, power. I love how smooth an automatic can shift. I love the steady pull of a CVT. And as of two hours ago, I love the sudden incredible thrill of huge amounts of torque in an EV. Be true to the machine, don’t accept a fake

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

I drove a 200km round trip daily for several years and there were times where I only remember getting and the car after work and suddenly being home. I couldn't have been asleep since I didn't die and made the correct turns. It was a stick shift 98 civic.

[–] altima_neo 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Same reason Dodge is gonna put fake engine noise in their EV charger

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

In their EV Charger or their EV charger?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

Imagine plugging in your car and all of the sudden you hear engine revving noises.

Actually, to be honest... I'd probably love that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Also very silly 😜

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So its cosplay for cars? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

All the work and effort needed to eek out the most performance from an ICE car is an understandable act. For purists that don't mind the effort they can achieve something that most can't in ICE. For those that can't we just watch and appreciate their talents.

However for EV none of that is necessary and in fact introducing manual "rev limits" or limitations or speed or performance at certain vehicle speeds to simulate the shortcomings of an ICE car (with a narrow power band that defines the limit of the technology) is the opposite of "extra effort for extra performance". Its "reduced performance for extra effort". Its making a thing look and act like another thing purely for cosmetic reasons.

I have no problem if people want to do this or buy vehicles that have this, but its not something I'm interested in.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm sure production will make manual mode just a mode, same as shift mode in automatics (including cvt). Some people just enjoy it. I have a mild sports car and a shitty mini truck. I have a "beginner" motorcycle and a rocketing sport bike. The sport bike and sport car check boxes for performing well, but the baby bike and shitty mini truck are a blast to row through the gears on in double-digit speeds and half the gas. For all intents and purposes I'm pretending those two are race vehicles while being far from it with their US-highway shortcomings.

Besides, this is one step closer to the skateboard chassis dream. One base platform with swappable bodies. Could be an auto 7-seat fwd wagon on monday, an auto 3-seat cabover pickup on Thursday, and a manual 2-seat rwd roadster on Saturday.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The sport bike and sport car check boxes for performing well, but the baby bike and shitty mini truck are a blast to row through the gears on in double-digit speeds and half the gas. For all intents and purposes I’m pretending those two are race vehicles while being far from it with their US-highway shortcomings.

But there's purpose to moving through the gears on the baby bike and shitty mini truck: You're extracting the most performance from the hardware.

Imagine for a moment you could still do that on those vehicles but that the performance would be worse if you do. Would you still do it?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Not OP, but yes

The act of shifting and the way that it influences the way the car/bike reacts is an integral part of the driving experience. There’s no fun in just pressing a go pedal with no input.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

When you drive an automatic transmission ICE car, do you also use the shift handle to force the automatic transmission to use lower gears until you're up to speed? Do you exclusively use paddle shifters in automatic transmission cars (where available)?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (4 children)

No, because it’s not performance driving.

My daily is a very boring, early 2000s automatic suv. It really doesn’t matter if something like that is an EV. I’ll probably replace it in the next 10 years with some base model EV to do my commute to work. It’s boring, but it works.

In any kind of performance driving car, which this is clearly trying to be, the ice and the shifting is integral to the experience.

To someone who only drives because they have to, it’s not going to make a difference. But there’s a lot of enthusiasts who want an ICE because of how the driving experience is. It’s not as refined or easy as an EV, but it’s more fun.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

Maybe it would be more engaging to drive, but it's just more expense and more to go wrong.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

I'm counting down the days honestly. I prefer small manual hatchbacks and nobody's making them. Had to sell my fiesta when we moved and even though I miss it, I'll never buy ford again.

In the meantime though, while I'm waiting for these magical shifting EVs, I grabbed a 2001 Honda insight. Older ones had a manual option. 61mpg.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

This is completely unsurprising to me. It is just like how focus groups wanted "gear shifts" on CVTs because the more efficient steady RPM was disconcerting to them. Yes it feels like delaying the inevitable but sometimes the general public needs to be gently transitioned (yes I know all of this is refuted by the success of gearbox-less EVs).

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