this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2023
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A workshop for the memes of production.

Submit new emoji here.

A good submission is:

  1. Visually clear at a small size (120 pixel width) [This does not mean upload the small image, this means upload the source image or full size cutout but test prior.]
  2. Have a transparent background to the greatest degree possible. This online tool can remove many backgrounds.
  3. Display a clear emotion or purpose
  4. If including text, should be properly sized to be readable
  5. "Evergreen" and not something that will be irrelevant after the next news cycle
  6. Formatted in PNG, GIF, or SVG to make our file optimization cycles easier. If svg initially, send svg in a seperately hosted link to WhyEssEff. Same with gif, as we render them as mp4 IIRC.
  7. Have proposed title as the title of the post, nothing more, nothing less.
  8. Post body should include a suggested category and keywords.
  9. Max height of 3 times the width.

Rules:

  1. No reactionary or reactionary-adjacent expressions. The purpose of an image is what it expresses. Some clear examples for this rule:
    • Allowed: Broken fasces, burning stars-and-bars, rotated Mussolini
    • Disallowed: Body-shaming, Pepes, gay-shaming the enemy (e.g. those pictures of Putin and Trump that libs love to post), certain hateful wojaks (even if recontextualized)
    • If you think you have touched on a grey area, see rule 7 for how to litigate this.
  2. ~~Nothing Vaush-related is allowed~~
    • To be honest, I broke this rule, so it's pretty much moot. Just run it by me first in DMs or matrix. Vaush is a bit of a dead horse, so to speak, so they're still generally discouraged. The qualification for a viable emote referencing his existence is more a matter of execution -- @WhyEssEff
  3. No desecration of religious imagery. This includes things like burning Israeli/Saudi flag emojis. If you can modify the flags while still accurately representing countries without including said imagery, it is much preferred.
    • A grey area can be argued around whether the symbol has colloquially evolved past its religious origins (one example of this that can be relatively agreed upon is the Union Jack, which is more a symbol of colonialism if anything). See rule 7 for how to litigate this.
  4. Nothing sexually explicit or overtly horny is allowed
    • :hentai-free:
  5. No sectarianism in submissions. Pro-tendency content is fine, but we will not accept content degrading specific tendencies.
  6. No gore, no SA, no sui-bait. Nothing that could reasonably trigger a comrade.
  7. If you think you're touching on a grey area with a submission, message @whyesseff:matrix.org to clear it before you post.
    • DISCLAIMER: Clearing does not necessarily mean that I'll add it, just that it's alright to submit and the rules will not be the barrier to its addition -- @WhyEssEff
  8. No content that breaks the Hexbear Code Of Conduct.

Emoji are added to the codebase periodically. Emoji may or may not be accepted and the dev team has final decision.

All images submitted must be ones you have the right to share with the project. By posting images in this comm, you are agreeing that you have permission to share this image with the project.

Hexbear Code Of Conduct, ToS, Privacy Policy, etc all still apply.

WhyEssEff's makeshift emote repository mirror on her personal github.

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Hey all, WhyEssEff here hey-all-scott-here

Over the past two-and-a-half or so years of being the sort-of-official emoji czar, the emote repository has grown to contain approximately 2300 distinct pictographs. As has been remarked over my tenure, this has unfortunately come with a lot of disarray. In order to address this, let me break it down in order to give proper context for it all.


The Problem kobeni-sweat

Hexbear’s emote shortcodes are notoriously obtuse and lack enforced standardization. A patchwork fix was applied to solve this in the refork, being keywords, but these only work when you are searching through the emote picker, not when you are using :shortcode-notation:.

The primary reasoning behind why this problem is a conundrum to fix is what I will call ‘shortcode rot.’ Essentially, what this entails is that:

  1. an unintuitive emote shortcode, for one reason or another, makes it into the emote repository.
  2. enough time passes for said emote to be used across multiple posts and comments.
  3. the shortcode now cannot be altered without breaking these posts’ and comments’ use of said emote.

The sources of unintuitive/unstandardized shortcodes, as far as I understand it, tend to fall into these categories:

  • attempts at brevity (e.g. biderman :biderman:)
  • emote is older than my tenure (e.g. loser :loser:, though this was one that I vividly remember making and recommending it be added back when we were stuck in the lifeboat discord, so this one’s still technically my fault shrug-outta-hecks)
  • emotions and natural language representation of pictures are ambiguous (e.g. linguistics)
  • syntactical ambiguity and non-standardization (e.g. one way this is used advantageously is that this is how we have three representations of 1984 in our emote base, 1984 :19::84:, 1984 :1984:, nineteeneightyfour :nineteeneightyfour:)
  • WhyEssEff trying to be clever (e.g. debate-me-debate-me :debate-me-debate-me: and kubrick-stare :kubrick-stare:)
  • the other ones that I can’t think of.

The Proposals theory-gary

To preface, these are merely the options I am considering at the moment. Furthermore, the subsequent poll is merely me gauging feedback on these potential options. I reserve the right not to enact or fully enact whatever the majority opinion falls behind, because I a) have a life and may not be able to address the issue meticulously, b) can’t please everyone with whatever shortcode schema we do end up with, and c) kind of am attached to certain wrinkles in the repository and would ultimately be operating on my own discretion no matter what as the head and sole maintainer of the repository.

With that out of the way:

PROPOSAL 1: Discretionary Rename Effort

Plan of Action: As I sort through the emote database, I change the ones that stick out as unstandardized and/or ambiguous by my own discretion, updating them as I go and making a pinned masterpost that I update when I change a shortcode so people can stay informed about new shortcodes.

Pros:

  1. The one that is the most realistic for me.
  2. Solves the problem for the most erroneous ones.

Cons:

  1. My discretion is biased and fallible.
  2. Changes to shortcodes that may break some older content.

PROPOSAL 2: Strict Standardization and Total Overhaul

Plan of Action: All emotes are strictly standardized according to an enforced style guide, on top of the previous proposal.

Pros:

  1. Most accessible.

Cons:

  1. 99% chance I'm not going to do this because it sucks to implement.
  2. Really really breaking changes to shortcodes.
  3. Ehhhhhhhhhhhh

PROPOSAL 3: Do Nothing

Plan of Action: It is what it is shrug-outta-hecks

Pros:

  1. No broken shortcodes, archive preserved.
  2. I can just keep to a standard in the future.
  3. I don't have to do anything.

Cons:

  1. The problem remains unsolved, so all the aforementioned issues.

The Poll i-voted

So, in order to collect feedback, here's what I ask:

Respond with the emote that corresponds to the proposal in a top level comment, except for the last option, which I'll explain below.

  • dean-smile (:dean-smile:) for Proposal 1: Discretionary Rename Effort.
  • dean-malice (:dean-malice:) for Proposal 2: Strict Standardization and Total Overhaul.
  • dean-frown (:dean-frown:) for Proposal 3: Do Nothing.
  • dean-neutral (:dean-neutral:) for something else, and explain what you suggest in your comment.

If you want to vote for a proposal that is suggested by someone else using dean-neutral, reply to their comment with a dean-neutral

Again, non-binding poll, I'm just trying to gauge the temperature on this. In about a week, I'll check this post again and tally it all up, and then I'll take that and decide how to move forward. Thanks all lea-finger-guns

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

IIRC the shortcodes are the key column of the emote. If you change them, then all previous uses in posts/comments will not load the emote. If you want to rename any, let me know and we can write a regex to go through and replace any instances in the database.

edit: also, its maybe possible we can enhance the inline emoji window to use keywords as well. would have to do some experimentation with it.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago (1 children)

will keep this in mind, interesting option since keys are locked on frontend

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I forgot, also we won't be able to update federated posts in other instances, so those will get forever broken.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I haven't explored other instances at all, but if updates sync is there an easy way to trigger the "there was an update to this post" push or whatever Lemmy uses to synchronize them?

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Since the federation update, when I pick an emoji with the picker I get markdown to a URL that doesn't contain the shortcode.

For example dean-neutral inserts:

![dean-neutral](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/48c31f9a-8487-48f0-afce-9db1db5fb5d6.png "emoji dean-neutral") 

Notice that the url to the png: https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/48c31f9a-8487-48f0-afce-9db1db5fb5d6.png doesn't contain the shortcode.

So right now the database has posts mixed between what I'll call the "old format" :shortcode: and the "new format" with the URL. The new format shows up in other instances and the old format doesn't.

Shouldn't it be possible to run a migration in the database, and switch the old format with the new for all posts? Then disable this on-the-fly shortcode substitution that the frontend is doing.

From then on we will have to use the picker, but the emoji can change name without braking old posts. And eventually the frontend conversion can be added to the backend to restore the old behaviour.

This would simultaneously solve the issue where emojis don't show up in other instances some times.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

Yeah we added extra code in our hexbear frontend to add handling for the 'old format' codes. We did sorta have plans to update all the old usages to the new one, but we just never got around to it during the big migration.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

Now you have two problems.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

dean-neutral

(Note: this is not in any way an official statement by the admin team, I'm just a tech dweeb)

Proposal: Do Nothing, but improve searchability by making the shortcode autocomplete also search by tags, not just the canonical name.

We have the ability to add basically unlimited alt-names or descriptors to the tags for each emote, which has made searching in the emoji picker much more viable even for obscure emotes (provided they are well-tagged). Problem is, nobody uses the emoji picker, most people don't even know it exists.

Make sure the library is reasonably well tagged and make that tweak to the searching and this whole conundrum goes away.

Examples below of some existing tags from a previous effort to tag all the emotes:

We might also want to make the alt-text more descriptive for people with screen readers but that's a separate conversation

Edit: Oh it looks like a dev (comrade makotech222) has already chimed in on this below:

also, its maybe possible we can enhance the inline emoji window to use keywords as well. would have to do some experimentation with it.

This would also basically address the following other suggestions:

https://hexbear.net/comment/4396592

https://hexbear.net/comment/4397267

https://hexbear.net/comment/4396837

https://hexbear.net/comment/4396793

https://hexbear.net/comment/4396237

https://hexbear.net/comment/4395861

https://hexbear.net/comment/4397894

https://hexbear.net/comment/4395895

https://hexbear.net/comment/4397730

https://hexbear.net/comment/4397711

 

secondary option if this isn't feasible: remove the unicode emojis from the emoji picker so it goes straight to our custom emotes when opened, and make it more prominent in the UI somehow (highlight it in a different color, make it bigger, make it sparkle, idc). And still finish the job tagging them all

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

This! This is the one

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

dean-neutral please! I'm sick of having to tell people the emoji picker exists every time this comes up

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago (1 children)

dean-neutral Add duplicates of badly named ones with new standardized names. And filter out the old ones from the emote picker so they don't get used much again.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

dean-frown

I kind of like how obtuse it is. It's part of the culture.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

finding a new one is like finding a new easter egg in a video game

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

the emote repository has grown to contain approximately 2300 distinct pictographs

mao-clap


dean-frown

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

For reference there are 3,782 emojis specified by Unicode (counting every kind of combination like skin tone or gender modifiers).

We're catching up.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago

:dean-frown: I want us to have insane technical debt of 50000 emoji that are all pixelated elsagate pregnant Macron in a Spiderman costume named like :box:

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago

dean-malice Go ahead break our posts, you're only going to destroy cringe.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago

dean-frown I think the obtuse names picked on a whim from when the emotes were added is a funny aspect of the site's use

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

:dean-frown:

I propose we keep the emotes the way they are. But to fix the problem of recognition, we should make an ANKI deck with all the emotes and names so new users can learn the language of emojis like it's literally a foreign language. Or someone(more talented than me) could make matching emojis to their names into a browser video game.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago

Rosetta Stone but for hexbear emotes, with Hebrew Latin and Greek side by side

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago

dean-frown Hexbear emojis are a beautiful nightmare and I wouldn't have it any other way

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I like the wrinkles, though some are very egregious. I like discovering and rediscovering emoji too (what is the name for the one with a bunch of reply lines?) It's a source of fun! Sometimes it's fun to have some that only those invited into the fold will know of a-guy smoothskin but other times it's too much. So I'm for the discretionary thingy dean-smile
Alternatively I recommend only having sopranos emotes paulie-point

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

We might not actually have that emote, it would be under Hexbear Heritage Haven if we did

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (4 children)

@[email protected] I've pushed some changes to our test build that enhance the inline emoji autocomplete. It will now search by both shortcode and keyword. Looks like this:

I've also improved image caching so the big emoji picker will also be faster at loading.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

dean-smile

Is there not a way to alias them such that the old shortcodes still display the same emote, but there's a new, canonical name? I guess it might not always work if multiple shortcodes map to multiple different emotes and it might complicate things a lot but idk, what if?

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

dean-frown why make work for yourself?

dean-neutral don’t rename them all, but only rename the dancing roach erdogan

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

We need a searchable emoji database that includes tags and a short description of each emoji.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Proposal:

Attach MULTIPLE short codes or keywords to each emoji.

Whether that is done by adding in more copies of the emote under different names, or if you can set it up so that you can have multiple names or keywords reference back to the original/ current shortcode

So us-foreign-policy could be found by keywords like “racism” or “paint swatch” or “family guy meme” or “not okay” or whatever, and the emote would show up

Perhaps this could be semi-automated somehow where us users can tag emotes with keywords or short codes that make sense to us? Idk

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I just want more big Margot-mojis...

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

dean-smile I just want you to take your time with it because I know you're a busy girl doing this all on your own time.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

Changes to shortcodes that may break some older content. Really really breaking changes to shortcodes.

Why not just make it to where emoji can have multiple shortcodes? All the old obtuse ones can stay and old posts will still work, but the emojis will also be given new better ones.

If you do 1 or 2 without my above suggestion, at least backup the old shortcodes in case we want to make some effort at restoring old posts in the future.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

:dean-neutral:

Translate all the names into dutch and do nothing else

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

:dean-frown: fuck it we ball (I am resistant to change)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

:dean-frown:

my only gripe with the system (besides learning the arcane symbols to find the emojis german-mud-wizard) is the fact that when you go to the emoji menu it takes a while to load all the emojis in for your viewing pleasure

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Side question: does anyone use the native emotes in the emoji-picker? I rarely ever see em and we can just remove them to clean up a lot of the picker. Just a thought.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

dean-frown It is, in fact, what it ism

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

dean-frown

not bothered by the arcane names tbh

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's like being a wizard and casting a spel

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (6 children)

let's delete them all and stick to the standard unicode emojis 🤷‍♀️

[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago

death to this particular suggestion

our emojis are our lifeblood

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

Counterrevolutionary

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

:dean-neutral: The obtuseness is kind of fun, but maybe there can be a secondary repository or spreadsheet, easily available and accessed, that can be searched based on multiple categories. I feel like that's the best of every possible world. Keep the codes the same, but have something else that makes searching for codes easier.

There already is a spreadsheet but I don't remember how to get to it and I don't think it's been updated for a while.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

I will resolutely support the party line! based-department

Uphold WhyEssEff thought! lea-bounce

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (3 children)

:dean-neutral:

I think most of them should be deleted, not just renamed. If there's any stats on which ones get used most, like by a histogram, then keep the top 25% or so and get rid of the rest. I hate loading the picker and waiting until I'm old to see what's even available. I give up before I can even see even half of them load in.

A good number of these emojis are seasonal or contextual and should be retired.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

dean-frown lets get to 3k emotes

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The easy solution is to build an official Hexbear keyboard app for iOS and Android that uses AI to suggest emojis based on text. /s

I’m fine with ad hoc fixes. With thousands of short codes, it takes time to learn all of them regardless of standardization. Standardizing going forward is sufficient imo.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

dean-smile

Could you not just add another copy of the emoji but with a standardized name? Sorry if you said that I'm drunk on hexbear and I don't read normally anyway

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

:dean-neutral:

I think the shortcodes ideally should be just a unique identifier that no one remembers. Make all new emojis have shortcodes which are the md5sum or something like that. Rely entirely on keyword search. This has two benefits:

  1. The unique identifier never needs to be changed, because there will be no such thing as shortcode rot. Sidesteps the problem of breaking old comments.

  2. New keywords can be added or removed at any time in the future, with no effect on any old posts.

We only need a human recognizable name when we search for an emoji, not after it's been saved to the post, so I think this should be approached on the UI of entering emojis. And hopefully Lemmy versions in the future will support custom emoji search within Lemmy apps? The lack of emoji search in third party apps is the only problem right now imo.

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