vegan

vegan btw

Posting more vegan memes solely to annoy the non-hexbarian who wanted to hide the vegan comm

~source source2 ~

I shouldn't have to put anything here, i put it all in the title. I'm vegan.

What is the hexbear vegan party line on animal plankton?

Posting here instead of /c/chicago since it's pretty dead. They've introduced an ordinance that would ban sales of new fur (not leather, not thrifting, but still):

https://chicago.councilmatic.org/legislation/o2023-0002983/

Apparently Gardiner said today he's going to co-sponsor this, along with some others not yet listed. Why the FUCK are Raylo and Gardiner suddenly champions of animal rights? It seems like it should be easier to get the succdems and progressives on board; I'm gonna ask mine tomorrow.

Basically title. I'm easing into my 1 year anniverary and wanting to come up with something that I can make and take to the in-laws since I don't want to put them out too much for my sake. They all eat omni and I don't expect them to cater to me. Last year I did tofurkey sausages and they were ok and they might be a fallback if I don't come up with something else. I was gonna get a Field Roast roast but it's $19 at Nat Grocers and yeah, I'm not spending that kind of money on something that only I am gonna eat.

I'd like it to be close to traditional but am open for alternative suggestions since, well, I love food. Right now I am thinking about doing vegan mashed potatoes since that is easy mode and I can scale it down to 1 or 2 helpings.

But other than that idk. Welcome to all ideas, so what you got?

Disclaimer: literally zero allergies or food aversions so I am open to anything. TIA.

Will check back after church crap...

Didn't see that coming, definitely an added bonus.

A few weeks ago Israeli defense minister Yoav Gallant said "We are fighting against animals", referring to Palestinians. The Ten Stages model of genocide puts "Dehumanization" at step 4 of 10. And of course we all see what is being done in Gaza. This can't all necessarily be placed at the feet of the ability of Israel (and its supporters) to dehumanize Palestinians, but I'm sure it helps it go down easier.

But being vegan I can't help but draw the obvious question: why does dehumanizing somebody, or saying they are an animal - not human - mean killing them becomes acceptable? This premise is not so easily swallowed by anybody who has given some thought to the practice of animal mass-murder. Would it be reasonable to say that the logic of capitalism, which in several areas requires dehumanization to function, is undermined by a veganism which rejects the premise that dehumanizing someone gives you license to maximally exploit them? More succinctly, does liberating animals help liberate all of us?

As said above, I don't think weakening dehumanization will really solve all problems as it's at most a salve of the conscience. I figure you all will agree with most of this stuff. Here's where it gets a bit more speculative, and I encourage you to ignore this next part if you think it's ridiculous.

So I think humanity will create real AI at some point, just as conscious as you or I. Maybe it'll be a product of techniques that are currently being used, just at greater scale, or maybe a qualitative breakthrough (or several) is still necessary, but I do think it will happen. We like to hate on LLM stuff on this site, often reasonably, but to think this is as good as AI tech will ever get is pretty shortsighted and largely (imo) driven by the knowledge that if this tech is developed under capitalism it will be used to oppress us, not liberate us. If you don't think AI is possible that's fine, I don't care, that isn't what this post is about. Argue about that elsewhere.

I watched Blade Runner 2049 a few years back. There's a scene where the human police chief is giving a speech to Officer K (a replicant) with the thesis being that there is a wall separating humans from replicants: humans have souls. At the time of watching I thought this was kind of ridiculous, given how secular society already is in 2023 and how there aren't any other elements in the world of Blade Runner indicating some great religious resurgence. Silly me for not thinking in material terms!

We already see great pushback from people to not compare human functions to AI techniques currently in use. This I think is justified for the same reason that people (reasonably) object to being dehumanized by being compared to animals: because under the prevailing paradigm, if you're dehumanized (whether by being compared to an animal or computer program), there is license to maximally exploit you. So of course people will redevelop the concept of souls as something they have that the machines do not, as a survival strategy under capitalism. Mirroring the veganism case, if AI is developed will the liberation of AI entities become joined with socialist struggle generally? Of course we are speculating. But I think it's an interesting angle to approach this issue. Will I be marching for AI labor rights in my lifetime?

Communism is the movement to abolish ALL oppressive systems, including systems that oppress animals and nature itself.

Yes, I am still watching the show, and even this episode is edgy, but it was edgy in a more scifi short story kind of way? if that makes sense. It's clearly based on some dystopian scifi stories like Soylent Green and Never Let Me Go, and there was a very obvious vegan message that impressed me.

On a recently locked struggle session thread, someone made the claim that

i love how people who hate my existence are just as evil as someone who doesn't care about eating a McRib

meat eating is bad but I don't think im going to compare them to people who don't want me to exist

The user in question is a woman and I'm not, so I think the best way to respond to this is to discuss it in the context of an oppression that applies to me. Here's a post where I've already done so:

I'm autistic. I struggle a lot with things that allistic people can typically do very easily or even effortlessly - things many would consider fundamental to being human, like socialization and romantic relationships. Over the course of my life, countless people have said and done things to me that make it clear that they view me as less than human. I've seen them say and do things to other autistic people because they make it clear they view them as less than human. This immediately gives me very good reason to be critical of the thought process that says "They're not human, so we get to be cruel to them."

I think this warrants elaboration, though.

I had the misfortune of being active for many years in communities were "autistic" was considered an insult. Just as most people are offended to be compared to animals, it was seen as demeaning and shameful to be compared to called autistic - "you're like one of those inferiors!" I would be extremely suspicious of anyone who claims to be an ally to autistic people but who flies into a rage if someone dares suggest that a crime against us carries comparable moral weight to a crime against them.

Am I offended to have my struggle compared to our society's crimes our fellow creatures? Do I think it carries with it the implication that I'm beneath moral consideration? No, because I don't consider animals beneath moral consideration.

Imagine that. I don’t even take b12 injections.

Now let's get to the meat of the issue. ALL human food production causes non-zero emissions, yes even the food you eat. Yes even if you grow it yourself. According to the link you provided "meat accounts for ~60% of green house gas emissions from food production." I would say, so what? Humans need to eat food and some food production is going to emit more green house gases then other food. Trying to optimize our diets to reduce our impact on the world at the expense of enjoying that world is something no one actually wants, including you. At the end of the day everyone has to eat food. So you say "But if we just cut meat production, we would reduce the green house gases of food production by 60%!" Well in less then 80years, the population of the earth is projected to be ~11billion. That is ~50% more people and thus 50% more greenhouse gases emitted from food. So now what do you now?

It's 2100ad, and we got rid of meat 80years ago, along with 10,000 years of human culinary culture and animal husbandry, and now we are right back where we started as far as green house gases (though probably worse because fossil fuels are still around). So what have you solved? What did destroying a huge part of the essence of human society accomplish? Hundreds and thousands of cultures were told that because burning coal and natural gas is cheaper and certian people will get rich from continuing to do that, those billions of people can't have certain kinds of food anymore. That's not a deal anyone will take, nor should they.

The problem is that people are mean to animals? Sorry, I don't see that as a problem at all.

We should destroy all human culinary culture and eat only what is the most efficiency use of land? Why?

Your solution to the environmental damage caused by agriculture is "eat less food." That's not a solution at all! My solution is that amazing experiences that human culture and society can provide us is 35% of the problem so let's address the other 65% because that's the shit that doesn't make life worth living. Shipping consumer electronics 8,000 miles just to throw away within a year doesn't make anyone happy. Spending 2hours a day commuting via car to some shitty office so that you can sell more consumer junk doesn't make anyone happy. These are the things that should be changed. The fact that people eat different food then you should be celebrated. Human culture is awesome and a world where we all eat the same food because it's the most efficient isn't a world worth living in.

And the grand Reddit-tier ableist carnist finale:

I suppose it's a deep seated psychological harm inflicted by your family when they forced you to eat dinner that one time. I hope you get the help you need, but unfortunately you will not find it here.

Adeiu.

This shit is dire.

I would prefer if they weren't just recipes but if they do both articles and recipes I don't mind.

I must confess I have a personal vendetta against Yudkowsky and his cult. I studied computer science in college. As an undergrad, I worked as an AI research assistant. I develop software for a living. This is my garden the LessWrong crowd is trampling.

The carnist wants to believe that they are inherently superior to any non-human animal and that this superiority gives them the right to torture and hack up their fellow creatures for their own pleasure. One reason among many that veganism tends to offend them so much is that it strikes at their ego, their belief that by virtue of their birth they are the apex of creation, and thus entitled to consume and discard those with whom they share this Earth as they please.

Personally I will not eat anything with the may contain label. I know this just means it is made in the same factory but I was wondering if I have just been overly cautious. What do you all think? Do you avoid stuff like that or do you think it is fine?

TLDR: They’re better than regular meat in nearly every metric, but beans and lentils still reign supreme.

After 5 years as a vegetarian who was willing to eat cheese so I could have a bit more food options when going out with friends, I just now realized I haven't any dairy products for like six or seven months now. Most of the local places we go to have enough decent vegan options so it doesn't feel like I'm only eating impossible burgers. Feels ffn good.