N.B. misandry is not real because men are not systemically oppressed (uninternalize your reddit MRA today: men suffer some drawbacks under the patriarchy but ultimately still maintain it due to the large amount of privileges they receive under it!)
this post was submitted on 21 May 2024
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chapotraphouse
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As a white AMAB, I have to deal with both misandry and reverse racism. It's tough. Prayers up in the chat
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You've almost got it
I'm NB, not a man, so I'd rather not misgender myself to make you more comfortable thanks
I thought the bit was pretending to be someone else who would say it, I didn’t know you were joking about you yourself, if that makes sense. Forgive me for that misunderstanding.
But, I’m still kind of uncomfortable and confused. You don’t identify as a man, how is you experiencing “””misandry””” (what would actually be misgendering and transphobia) supposed to be some silly privileged complaint? It’s still a weird thing to make a joke about how silly and not-real that situation is because it’s an actually real thing IE TERFS do to non-binary people and trans women, and before you say it’s just some silly online thing, it has happened historically quite often.
Read Whipping Girl if you haven’t already, stuff like “no AMABs allowed at our music concert” was real shit people would do to exclude trans women and AMAB non-binary people. Hence my discomfort.
I am masc presenting and AMAB, so I still experience privilege because of patriarchy. Much as a white person, I still benefit from racial privilege. My experience is in no way comparable to how TERFs treat transwomen, nor do I wish to comment on a subject that I have no personal experience of. Which is precisely why the joke was at the expense of my own privilege and, indeed, privileged people in general.
I'm going to cut you some slack here because you're it seems like you're coming at this from a particular trans femme perspective(?), but you're making a lot of assumptions about me that aren't based on anything I've said. Not everyone who uses AGAB language is visibly gender nonconforming to a casual viewer. I am a masc appearing person who doesn't identify as a man, and the reason I refer to myself as AMAB is simply to acknowledge my biological sex where relevant to the discussion while not misgendering myself. I would experience misandry in the same way a man would, as an entirely incidental happenstance that has no structural backing (like "reverse racism").
If you want a take on whether what TERFs do is properly called misandry or transphobia, it would be better to direct it to someone who has been more directly affected. But either way I think you're bringing a lot of baggage to this conversation that really doesn't have anything to do with me.
Also, I've heard Whipping Girl is good. I probably will read it at some point
I understand you specifically present outwardly as masc, and as you said lots of AMAB non-binary people do. However the phrasing is just... weird because it implies male privilege is a universal Thing to AMAB people. I am indeed bringing a lot of baggage to this conversation that doesn't affect you, however I am bringing it because the joke makes me uncomfortable. Please understand that I am seeing this from a different perspective and, while your personal experience might work with the joke, the joke implies at least somewhat that it's somehow universal to AMAB people and that bugs me. Plus like??? There are a LOT of non-AMAB people that experience male privilege (trans men???)
Like it shouldn't take this much for someone to say that a joke is just really uncomfortable to them.
Nor should I have to go so far to justify a joke to you that is based entirely on my own experiences
You have to justify the joke because it also reaches into and comments on MY experiences because I'm an AMAB person, Jesus Christ.
Edit: Like if you made a post like "As a white-passing mixed-race hispanic person I experience reverse racism, prayers in chat" it would be blatantly weird and kind of offensive and/or just outright nonsensical because like, sure, it might technically be true they have privilege, in some circumstances, but 99% of the time I've heard when people attack mixed-race people for being "too white" it's just punching down.
Edit 2: https://juliaserano.substack.com/p/on-male-socialization-and-the-trans
No, I don't, actually. I never said or implied that I was speaking for every AMAB person. I'm also not Jesus Christ.
I support the right of any white-passing Hispanic person to say this lol, and I honestly am not sure what you're trying to get at. What right do you have say this is offensive if that's their experience? What are you policing this hypothetical person for anyway?
Great article, except I've already read it and it doesn't have anything to do with me. If you want to go tell at some TERFs, go right ahead, they deserve it. But spare me your outrage over me joking about experiencing male privilege
... tbh that makes sense, sorry. I'm doing the neurotypical thing of assuming shit that wasn't said. Idk uhhh, fuck I'm sorry.
It's alright. I can tell this touched on an issue you care deeply about
thank you, it was still out of line from me. thank you for being patient.
No worries comrade