this post was submitted on 25 May 2024
154 points (83.2% liked)

politics

19104 readers
2440 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 62 points 5 months ago (3 children)

There is always a possibility of a hung jury due to a die hard Trump fanatic on the jury. But barring that, he will be found guilty. This is a documents case where there is no room for interpretation. It doesn't matter that Cohen is a liar. It doesn't matter that the defense sabotaged itself. Guilt was a foregone conclusion - to the extent it can be given a presumption of innocence.

It's like putting a color on trial for being red. You can bring in all the experts to call it pink or magenta, or question whether eyes are even real, but at the end of the day there's a legal definition and either the color matches or it doesn't.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

That’s not entirely correct. Part of the prosecution’s case is tying Cohen’s compensation as Trump’s personal attorney to compensating him for laying out the money for the hush money payments. Cohen claims that he agreed to worked as the President’s personal attorney for free, and payments received during that period were in fact compensation for his payments to Daniels. That piece of the case is directly dependent on Cohen’s credibility as a witness, which is why the defense focused so heavily on discrediting him.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There is very clear documentary evidence of what happened, no matter how big a liar Cohen is. I mean I certainly simplified it, but not by much. Correction and clarification always welcome, of course, so thank you for adding this.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I appreciate your pleasantry, but your assertion of clear evidence is still incorrect, and Cohen’s credibility is essential to the prosecution’s case. The documentation for Cohen’s repayment does not exist. The prosecution is arguing that the records of Cohen’s payment for his role as the President’s personal attorney were falsified, stating that Cohen was working for free and those payments were compensation for him laying out the money for Daniels’s payment.

The rest is thoroughly documented, as you said, but that one part is substantiated by testimony. Thankfully, he was very clear, composed, and humble in his testimony. He spoke vulnerably about his desires to do anything that would please Trump. He was very different than the venomous and vengeful guy the defense tried to portray.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It was paid through several checks. They are in the ledger as payment for the position of personal attorney to the President. Cohen announced the position as soon as he got it, and changed his email signature the same day. There’s proof of his role, and proof of payment for performing it.

The prosecution is claiming, through Cohen’s testimony, that he agreed to perform the position pro-bono for the clout, and that the payments he received for performing that role were actually repayment for the hush money he paid out of pocket.

That’s not clear evidence. It’s based on testimony, therefore the credibility of the witness is of great importance to the success of the prosecution’s case.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

This just made me think of a world where everyone has some sort of colorblindness and can't see a color, except this one person who can who used it, but the color is outlawed, so there's a trial of all color blind people and are being told it's this color, but aside from a computer giving a hex code for it, they can't see it and have to rely on this computer output over their own eyes.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

There is also a little subjectivity in whether the reason for falsifying the business documents was to cover up a crime (election interference). My understanding is that that's what raises the charges to a felony.

With that said, I don't believe the defense really tried to pass it off as general PR'ing or anything like that