this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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Public schools are not intrinsically a bad thing and if they aren't eroded with profit-seeking and politically-motivated sabotage, they are a way to provide a fair chance to every child in society.
What is your proposed alternative? There was a time before public schools existed in the United States. The outcome for most, especially the poor, while ostensibly free of what you call "propaganda to kids," was not great.
Good for you on an individual basis.
I don't think that even you'd propose that "fuck you, got mine" is a society-wide positive alternative to public schools. That has been tried before for all the time before public schools existed.
Right here, from the start.
The implication is right there that there's nothing to public schools, damaged and ransacked as they admittedly are now, except propaganda. It's not a good career choice overall as it is right now. but it's still essential work that is necessary for a society.
Are you going anywhere else with this? I already answered your questions as far as I know regarding my position on the topic.
I replied to you many times already saying over and over again that the OP (and many people in general, including myself) probably shouldn't get into teaching right now.
I don't think I can meaningfully reply to you further if you're going to be making up what I said and then getting mad at what you made up about what I said.
That's relatable. I've been there.
So again are you proposing anything as an alternative to public schools, damaged and corrupted as they have been in the present status quo that also likes to preach about how worthless public schools are while also stripping the remaining metaphorical copper from the walls?
Cute, but stating what you would do on an individual basis with a "don't care, whatever" clause isn't a basis for a plan for millions of school-age children that would otherwise have nothing but the tender mercies of whatever their parents could (or couldn't) come up with to educate them.
Maybe the OP really shouldn't get into teaching because it is thanklessly hard work with diminishing rewards and less and less chance to make a positive difference for students. Even so, the attitude that it has always been worthless and that nothing can ever be done to improve it is just fatalistic bullshit.
I think you two are talking past each other. I think that hamid gave their advice to OP specifically and you are turning around and asking "What is your systemic solution to the problems you believe are present in public school" which is interesting but doesn't necessarily follow "is this a good idea Y/N?"
Maybe, but to me, even the opener came loaded with the implication that public school was worthless in general, not just as a career choice.
What IS "the way" then? If it's all "teaching propaganda to kids" what else is there? The implications of that statement went beyond individual career choice.
I left teaching recently, myself. I know very well how bullshit it is right now.
As a kid I was raised believing teaching was a respected job (along with being a nurse, doctor etc) but I now perceive it to be somewhere along the spectrum of frustrating, demeaning and unsatisfying. Not because of the purpose but the compensation, institutional disregard and public scorn.
One of my best friends from school is a teacher & he commented to me that he is the only person he knows from when he majored who still teaches.
I am curious how much of this is consistent with your experience?
edit: I guess I only read the first half, my bad. The propaganda part is off putting to me as well. I struggle with this in general because often I feel there are assumptions that are more pervasive and more damaging than explicit propaganda (ex US won WWII) but people aren't typically consciously teaching that it just gets communicated somehow.
I edited the above comment too late so I'll put it here, starting with the quote I first responded to.
What IS "the way" then? If it's all "teaching propaganda to kids" what else is there? The implications of that statement, particularly that teaching was "teaching propaganda to kids" went beyond individual career choice.
I left teaching recently, myself. I know very well how bullshit it is right now. Yes, it is terrible and it'd take some public will and government-level forced uprooting against the privatized rot to make a positive difference. I actually agree that it isn't a good career to get into, right now, for someone that just wants to make a positive difference, but it's still necessary work, just like nursing and picking up garbage. The workers deserve better, including better means to do their necessary work.
Yeah, and until and unless that changes, my question is what could be done for kids that need education, right now. It fucking sucks right now, and that's one of the main reasons I left the profession myself, but that doesn't mean that "shit sucks, just stop trying" should be a society-wide decision ever after.
Yes, it does suck. My point, since you've replied to me in four different places, is once again that those kids do need to be educated, somehow, and that public schools are a public necessity unless we want to regress back to an even worse time. It's not a great career choice for most and I left it behind myself, but "it's all propaganda anyway so just end it all" isn't a wise or sustainable long term answer to how fucked up it's gone.
I'd love that, too. But until then teaching kids nothing is going to make them even more endangered within the prevalent system that they're going to be forced into as imminent adults.
As some have already said, it's less easy to propagandize some essential classes such as math, and throwing out the whole thing for performative "propaganda free" purity reasons isn't doing the students any favors.
No. I already said they shouldn't.
That does happen and it is terrible and it has contributed significantly to my own decision to leave the profession. Again, once again, my point is that doesn't mean that teaching itself or the public school system should as a whole be abandoned or abolished. It is in dire need of improvement and restoration, even if that currently seems out of reach.
Saying "it's all propaganda" sounded to me like a defeatist condemnation of public schools in general.
Yeah, I think it's a difference of interpretation.
It's all good, comrade.
This is why you are in my top 5 posters