this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2024
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77
China tops world in hydrogen stations, fueling a clean energy future (news.cgtn.com)
submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Zero emissions at the tailpipe, sure. The problem is that the most common type of commercial hydrogen production involves massive uncontrolled emissions of carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide. Can't beat the laws of chemistry and physics. Crack CH4 with hot H2O and you'll get your H's, sure. But you'll also get a whole lot of C's and O's, and capturing them is very unprofitable. So they all get vented into the atmosphere.

So yeah, you can safely drink the exhaust of a hydrogen car. But every top-up of a hydrogen fuel tank means greenhouse gas emissions at the source.

And that's not even getting into the leak issues (the H2 used is the smallest molecule in the universe, it likes to leak out of everything), the tank wear-and-tear issues that come with leaks (it's called hydrogen embrittlement), and the interesting politics of a hydrogen station developer trying to convince a city council that they'd like to install what is basically a rocket fuel depot in an urban area.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

A lot of hydrogen produced in China is actually clean, and they do have a concrete plan to move towards zero emissions hydrogen production:

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago (3 children)

China is making less than 1% green hydrogen right now, if they really can get it to 10% by 2030 id be very happy. But as far as I can see from that report, the plan is "invent some technology that makes this more efficient". I think will happen eventually just not predictably enough to make a plot out to 2060 like hydrogen will be a good idea compared to other renewable technologies that will also advance in that time period.

But anyway China is taking green energy seriously so they might as well try everything.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

You're right that there are unknowns and risks involved here. And I think you're completely right that they're trying a wide range of approaches to see what works for different kinds of use cases. I'm hopeful they figure this stuff out, somebody has to.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

As far as I am aware, hydrogen production at an industrial scale through water electrolysis has simply never been attempted before. They are in a situation where by default they have to invent some technology that makes this more efficient. I think the shape and composition of electrodes is still evolving rapidly, and they’re working on reducing the rate of their deterioration.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

I'd rather the money and research power be put into advancing electrolysis than soms war machine. I know it can be done. It just needs to be refined like any tech.

If they are smart and synergistic about it, they can make a self sustaining program. Once they get there, they will have energy dominance and affordability. Other nations will replicate it and it will remove the motives for global conflict.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

But anyway China is taking green energy seriously so they might as well try everything.

I saw a survey that said 60% of china believes climate change is a real and important issues compared to less than 40% of Americans lol

I never read the study but I always thought the charts were funny

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Once again, Americans proving themselves to be the most ignorant bunch.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago

Playing half-Earth socialism, moving the dial from "blue hydrogen" to "green hydrogen" and hoping I don't cause shortages

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago

There are challenges to burning hydrogen for energy, but the upsides are really compelling. I was astounded to read in the article that China is already producing hydrogen from electrolysis, and that they are planning for 10% of their hydrogen production to be from hydrolysis by 2025! That’s absolutely astounding. This is the only project in the world actually trying to produce hydrogen through electrolysis on an industrial scale. Clearly they have a lot of confidence in the technology.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 months ago (3 children)

It's gonna be real funny when all the rich assholes who invested in Lithium mines lose all their momey when Hydrogen Fuel Cells and Sodium Ion Batteries become the mainstream.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 months ago (1 children)

China is also developing stuff like sodium-ion batteries that could end up being a lot cheaper than lithium as well.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Yeah I saw some demos on bilibili. They're still not quite as good as lithium but similar enough that any fears of a "lithium shortage" during a time of crisis is basically wishful thinking now lmao.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago

Exactly, and it's also worth noting that longer ranges you can get with lithium only matter for private cars. A lot of transportation such as buses, trucks, and so on, can run on fixed routes, so you just need a battery big enough to handle that. Incidentally, this is another argument in favor of public transport over private vehicle ownership.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Need more sodium? Suck it out of the sea!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Extract salt from the ocean, extract sodium from salt. Turn sodium into batteries, throw batteries into the ocean. That's the beautiful circle of life

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (3 children)

You act like they won't pressure US congress to ban the "dangerous" new battery technology so they can maintain their monopoly.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Sleeper builds in 2034: "No officer this car doesn't have any of those godless commie hydrogen fuel cells. It's all good old Nevada Lithium. I just paid for the Tesla™ Pro Maxx XL 2 advanced battery discharge™ service package is all."

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

"I only get 3 miles to the gallon officer, I swear! Only good old American wastefulness in this vehicle!"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (2 children)

lol that's not gonna happen because there'll be no need for cars
all US workers will just be in prison instead

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

In Prison they make you lease golf carts from GM that you need to drive 3 miles from your cell to the work site.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

cue that clip from My Dinner With Andre

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The US sold an advanced battery license to china because they didn’t take it seriously. China reached out to the American scientists and engineers who developed it to help guide their production. Now Americans can’t afford to produce it like china and china refuses to sell it to Americans despite it being a requirement for the license lol capitalist-laugh

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Reminds me of the ottoman empire banning printing

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

slaves to Big Scribe

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Excuse my ignorance but is this the sodium found in desalination sludge? If so does that they can reuse that sludge rather than dumping it?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago

They produce hydrogen by putting hundreds of citizens into those giant spheres and then crushing them

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

The people of the PRC are always winning xi-pog

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

This is fascinating thank you for sharing!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

China tops world

panting

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

All these science spheres are made of asbestos by the way, keeps out the rats...