mutual_aid
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- Mods do not vet individual mutual aid requests. Donate at your own risk and hold each other accountable. If you see something even remotely suspicious, do not hesitate to bring it to the attention of a moderator for review.
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- All mutual aid requests must go in this community.
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- Do not request donations for funding anything explicitly illegal.
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- Moderator Pinning Rules:
a. Moderators are strictly prohibited from promoting/endorsing/pinning individual mutual aid requests (especially those of their own) as this creates unfair post visibility and could therefore benefit more from that than the standard user. Moderators caught engaging in this behavior will be swiftly removed from the moderator board with extreme prejudice.
b. Moderators are allowed to pin and crosspost to !main donation requests for large scope issues such as natural disaster relief funds and bail funds (Example) along with other crowd or moderator compiled informational resources pertaining to donating or volunteering (Example) so long as the utmost due diligence is done prior to endorsement, especially in the case of directing people to donate to non-profit organizations.
c. Financial documents of non-profit organizations available to the public must be heavily scrutinized before moderator endorsement and links to those must also be included in the endorsement post to help the community make their own decision as to whether or not they should donate.
Fifth, and to me personally, one of the most important, I am less likely to send money, if I have to effectively dox myself to the poster to do it, and when I have to ask for payment details over DM, that's basically what I'm doing (its trivial to correspond who I am by timing and payment method, even if multiple people do send them money, doubly so over multiple different posts over time). It's one thing for them to know my name or my venmo or whatever, but when they can tie that name to a specific hexbear account I start to go from "keeping the risk in mind" to "I don't think that's a risk I'm willing to take". So while I can understand the urge to not have posters dox themselves, the reverse is also true.
It might be a good idea to review what payment options are available, and see if there are options which are better suited to anonymity (while still being quick, and not having significant fees or overwhelming hurtles to use). If there are a handful of good options which are better than e.g. PayPal or Venmo, we should probably recommend them. If there are options which can be shared publicly without doxxing either side of the transaction (aside from the feds, who can figure out regardless), that would be great.
I've generally seen people use PayPal / CashApp / Venmo for this sort of thing, and all of them typically expose identities (at least, PayPal and Venmo do). There are other payment processors like GoFundMe, Patreon, LiberaPay, which are targeted more towards recurring payments, but these take fees and I don't think they allow for instant withdrawals (i.e. I'm starving or I need to pay for a prescription NOW and can't wait for a monthly check).
It would be helpful for people to share any caveats about payment apps they have used.
Aside from payment apps, it might be useful to look into (non-ACH) gift cards. The kind with scratch-off codes on them which could be bought at a convenience store and have the code shared via DM. Won't help cover rent, but could buy some meals or help order some items from online retailers.
After writing this, I'm beginning to think a general guide on how to seek/assist people in this way might be a valuable resource.
How about Ko-Fi? I know it allows anonymous donations (you can do this by donating without making an account/logging out if you have an account), fees are low, and payments go directly to your linked payment account rather than being held by the platform (this is all according to their official documentation). I only have experience as a donor, though, so idk what the experience is like as a receiver and if there are issues with accounts being flagged or anything like that.
I forgot about Ko-Fi. I have made payments on there too. Like you said, I was able to just plug in credit card info without making an account or anything. Also like you said, I have no experience receiving payments on there. It looks like they forward the payments through either PayPal or Stripe.
It looks like they forward the payments through either PayPal or Stripe.
Just to add more info to the conversation: neither of those pay immediately. PayPal can take 1-2 days, though I think they have an instant option for an additional fee. Stripe will take 2 days, and they'll also hold your first payment for a week and pretend this is a standard practice, though none of the others do it. There's no fee you can pay to get around that initial delay. (I set up online payment processing for my husband's small engine repair work, and we learned that last one the hard way last fall.)
Thanks for the additional info! When you say "pay immediately", do you mean pay out to a bank account, or do you mean become available to be used at all? In either case this wouldn't help with something like being overdrafted or paying bills, but I've been able to use PayPal for tap-to-pay so having a PayPal balance might be enough to pay for groceries or similar.
Almost makes me want to begrudgingly suggest Monero, but crypto is such a pain in the ass that I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to jump through those hoops (especially on the recipient side).
I meant pay out to a bank account. I knew PayPal offered cards to access your balance there, but I didn't realize they do the tap-to-pay thing, that's good to know!
my experience with this is:
- paypal leaks your email and probably name,
- venmo you have a username and a name field, for which most people seem to put their actual name, but I have some orgs on there that just show up as "org name" so it doesn't actually have to be your legal name.
- cashapp I think lets you just have a handle, but I haven't used it in a while because they just don't work with non-standard phone setups, and the webapp is purposefully limited (can't send money to anyone who you haven't sent to before via the phone app)
Does Liberapay leak any details I've been keen to use it but I don't know anyone else that does.
huh I thought liberapay would let you do one time donos. I mean obviously you still can just cancel after one but kinda annoying. I know some payment types on there actually don't even support recurring donations so you have to log in and manually authorize it each month or quarter or year or however you have it set up.
liberapay technically isn't an escrow or anything though, so I think both parties still have some visibility into each other. seemingly you can set it up with square in such a way that the donater gets an org name not your legal name, but not sure about the other way around. paypal I think remains shitty even if done through LP but idk
A guide would really help I think. I didn't know most of the stuff in just this post.
Would some sort of escrow situation be possible to address the third point?
Last time I used Venmo and both me and that person know each others full legal names now lol
I don't know of any option for this that's easy and convenient enough to use for a person in crisis, and I'm guessing the site admins don't want to be the ones to run such a system either. But if there's good options out there I'd love to hear it. I guess things like ko-fi act kinda like that. liberapay too sorta. But those aren't trivial to set up or fast to transfer in an emergency
i agree
Does deleting a thread in mutual aid clear it out to other people? I always try to update then delete my posts asking for help.
I saw some people update their post title to have [Need met] somewhere in it and thought that was a pretty good way to handle it since its more immediately obvious.
yeah it should. I don't think it's necessary to go as far as deletion, but I don't have strong feelings about it.
Fifth [privacy concerns]
Yeah I'd only "remit funds" to someone I trust and even then only to an XMR address (which I'd feel bad asking for one because it is admittedly cumbersome and for immediate needs not useful as said "funds" would likely be tied up for a few days unless you use haveno to try to get cash/digi wallet OR literally mail order drugs on the web lol which I dont mind)
right. I already have fairly low standards for privacy concerns here, but this is too much for even me lol