this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 82 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Something I find incredibly weird about US company culture is how they talk about overtime like it's a good thing.

"Our employees worked weekends, days and nights to make this happen! We wouldn't have succeeded without people who are willing to give up their personal lives!"

I hope they not only succeed but get shares. Doing weekends or nights for a company you don't (partially) own feels like a con.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Find people who care about what they're working on and they'll go well beyond the extra mile. As an extra motivator, make it clear the company won't be around if they don't succeed. I'm sure these employees have shares, but tha only really matters if the company succeeds (extra motivation!). Unfortunately, there have been a ton of green/green-adjacent automotive "startups" that have struggled to gain a foothold. See also:

(I'm sure many others)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Here are a few other interesting green automotive startups that didn't make it:

  • Sono Motors' Sion: Compact EV with solar panels, power sharing, intended to be easily repairable and included a detail manual. They had prototypes but never went to production. Now the company does niche solar applications.
  • Workhorse: Series Hybrid (think Chevy Volt) Pickup truck with onboard power for tools etc (was announced around or even before Rivian). Was a very pragmatic idea IMO. Later sort-of resold to Lordstown. Now company does some other things, like drones.
  • Lordstown Motors' Endurance: EV Pickup Truck with hub motors. Made a few hundred, but they have been dragging it out long enough for Ford to make electric pickups. And the idea wasn't too original even when it was announced.
[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago

Fisker is nothing but a conman, always has been. His MO is literally to start a company, secure funding, make a personal fortune and then abandon the bankrupt shell and leave customers hanging.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago

Nothing says product quality like overworked employees

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago

it is a con

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

A few things the cynics are missing.

  1. The engineers who are designing this car don't have the political power to push for better mass transit.
  2. Even in ideal circumstances, there will still be a need for personal transport vehicles and infrastructure. Small cars will still be needed.
  3. Aptera has 31 employees as of 2023. If they're working overtime, it's because they're letting the company do it. Maintaining good moral is way more important in small companies.
[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Been following this company’s development for over a decade now. I really want them to succeed but I have major doubts.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 days ago (4 children)

There's something that people really fail to grasp with solar, and that's the fact there is bugger all energy in the sun, and you need a huge surface area to get any meaningful energy.

A home solar array often takes up a significant chunk of the roof area, and the amount of surface area a car typically has means that even perfectly efficient solar panels wouldn't collect enough energy to significantly contribute to the vehicle's range.

There's a good reason why vehicle manufacturers don't bother adding them.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Their tech isn't just the solar, they've optimized the car solely for efficiency. They claim their car can get 10 mi/kwh, so with 700W of solar panels they can get up to 40 miles of charge per day with just the solar. By contrast, the solar panels that are available on the new Prius get 4 miles of charge per day.

Now that their production-intent vehicles are just starting to be built up, I'm eagerly awaiting their actual test data that hopefully verifies their claims on efficiency, range, crash safety, etc. but we'll see 🤞 I really hope they succeed.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

Yes, the aerodynamics + solar panels is what makes this vehicle enticing, not just the solar panels alone.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 days ago (18 children)

Yes, but with a light and efficient vehicle, along with enough area covered in solar, it should be able to get you about 15 miles of free travel when left out on a sunny day. It has a battery. It isn't just running on sunshine and lollipops.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Or 43 miles in Aptera's case

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 days ago

I'll believe that when I see it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (5 children)

I'm not believing they'll get even close to that in a production vehicle that's US street legal.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago (4 children)

The body weighs around 360kg, with a 60kwh battery it supposedly weighs around 800kg (the smallest and lightest option is 25kwh), with a drag coefficient of 0.13.
In comparison to some of the most efficient cars - the Hyundai Ioniq 6 is around 1,860kg with a drag coefficient of 0.21. Tesla Model 3 is around 1760kg with a drag coefficient of 0.219.

It's going to be a whole lot more efficient than the average car just based on these numbers.

Now it depends on how much of the car's surface will be covered by the solar panel and what's the panel's efficiency.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago

There is good amount of energy in the sunshine. The output of solar arrays struggle to make big power out of small surface areas because we haven't figured out how to get more than 20% of the power that hits the panel. If they do get 20% or more, it's been with very expensive and fragile panels.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Solar panels are also added weight, which reduces range. Any way you look at it, it makes more sense to have the solar panels at a base location you go back to.

I guess an RV, or a camp trailer, makes sense to have panels on it, but that's about it

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The future of transportation everybody: a car.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

that is not a car. It is a Reliant Robin meets the BORG

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago

Lots of people here criticizing Aptera who clearly haven't researched the company or the tech.

[–] aniki 10 points 5 days ago (3 children)

It’s also a bit strange to see a production-intent build of a solar electric vehicle without any solar panels. Still, Aptera shared that technology will be implemented next alongside the SEV’s production-intent thermal management system and exterior surfaces.

This thing is pure vaporware. My new Leaf isn't.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

No one is trying to take away your Leaf, though.

Let them push the envelope. Failing is a required pavestone on the road to almost every success story.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Im not saying it isn't, but fitting custom curved prob special solar panels on a test vehicle does not sound cost efficient, especially when you can test the solar panels separately perfectly fine.

Cars are complex to construct properly even without drivetrains, plenty to test there.

[–] Cethin 9 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

True, but my understanding is the amount of solar energy that hits an area the size of a car multiplies by the max possible solar energy conversion is still far below what's needed to power a car. Sure, you can continue to charge it while parked, which is cool. However, you could also put cheaper non-custom panels on a building and then plug your non-solar electric car into it to charge while parked, and the building panels will have significantly better solar exposure and be cheaper per panel.

If your goal is making something effective that reduces carbon output, an EV and solar on a building is much better. If you're creating junk to get VC funding, this is what it looks like. If this comes to market at all, it's not going to make any waves, except maybe for how impractical it is.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Solar panels aren't worth it for a normal EV, but supposedly the Aptera is so small, lightweight, and aerodynamic (with that teardrop shape) that they actually add a significant amount of range.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

You're taking for granted the fact that many people don't have the luxury of modifying their house/condo/apartment to install and maintain solar panels. Nor is it guaranteed that they have a garage/driveway to charge their car. With the Aptera, you wouldn't have to deal with the hassle or inability to install solar panels because you would be able to passively charge it anywhere it's sunny (i.e. while driving as well). So I disagree that this is just an objectively worse option than charging with rooftop solar, especially because of how competitively priced the Aptera will be compared to standard EVs.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I could see a market for a small electric camper van (Like actual small van sized like the old VW vans) with a solar roof. For regular camping you would always have electric to charge your phone and if you wanted to tour around a bit you could probably stay at each location for 2/3 days and gain enough charge to make it to the next one (at least in summer)

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

The car is efficient enough for it to do something (20-30 miles a day in summer if I remember), but yes it’s mostly marketing and they say as much. “Solar electric car” sounds a lot better than “this car is pretty normal but it’s super efficient”

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Oh, I agree with you there (well, not in the tech itself, why not both, have panels on buildings and on some cars – plenty of people drive only a few thousands of kilometres/miles per year & still need a car).

I'm just saying that as engineer I would start testing them separately, in lab conditions first to get the basics & correct obvious initial faults, then separately outside.
As management I however would insist that engineer has to find a way to glue whatever solar panels they can find to the prototype if there is gonna be a press release.

I didn't read much what they are doing/going for tho, so can't say much about that.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago

I want them to succeed. I really hope they do.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago (1 children)

It's good to see that Aptera is still a possibility!

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

The Aptera has been promised for over a decade now. I'm somehow amazed they are still trying.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago

Good, now keep the momentum up, Aptera. You're so close to the reality.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago (9 children)

Please just do trains. They can even be solar powered - a lot easier than this.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Trains are easy and they're easily electrified already. So putting solar on the trains won't have any advantage.

Rails are the difficult part of railways. They never seem to put them between my house and my work. They've put something called a road in between instead.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago (20 children)

I presume they meant to put in railway infrastructure.

Railways cost so much less than one highway, we could have a system basically from home to work.
(eg smol trams to a midway se station to high-speed trains)

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