Liberals aren't the actual left, and made sure to kneecap any chance you had years ago of a populist left coalition to challenge Trump.
this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
57 points (92.5% liked)
Political Discussion and Commentary
181 readers
733 users here now
A place to discuss politics and offer political commentary. Self posts are preferred, but links to current events and news are allowed. Opinion pieces are welcome on a case by case basis, and discussion of and disagreement about issues is encouraged!
The intent is for this community to be an area for open & respectful discussion on current political issues, news & events, and that means we all have a responsibility to be open, honest, and sincere. We place as much emphasis on good content as good behavior, but the latter is more important if we want to ensure this community remains healthy and vibrant.
Content Rules:
- Self posts preferred.
- Opinion pieces and editorials are allowed on a case by case basis.
- No spam or self promotion.
- Do not post grievances about other communities or their moderators.
Commentary Rules
- Don’t be a jerk or do anything to prevent honest discussion.
- Stay on topic.
- Don’t criticize the person, criticize the argument.
- Provide credible sources whenever possible.
- Report bad behavior, please don’t retaliate. Reciprocal bad behavior will reflect poorly on both parties.
- Seek rule enforcement clarification via private message, not in comment threads.
- Abide by Lemmy's terms of service (attacks on other users, privacy, discrimination, etc).
Please try to up/downvote based on contribution to discussion, not on whether you agree or disagree with the commenter.
Partnered Communities:
• Politics
founded 2 months ago
MODERATORS
This is my perspective as a non american lefty looking in.
Stop fighting on minor issues. Support trans issues but don't spend time arguing or justifying or fighting on them. They are to minor and it's to easy for right wingers to make stuff up and drag the goal posts around making you look crazy.
Right wingers focus on a few issues that are simple to understand. The left needs to do this as well.
Economy - if there is a Republican in power spend all your time bitching about how bad the economy is regardless of reality. If a democrat is in constantly harp on how good the economy is and how our buying power is strong. Perception is reality at the end of day. Talk about how rich the country is but Americans don't see any of that wealth because of republican policies.
Maybe it's time to revive the American dream meme. Talk about building up cool infrastructure projects and new mega factories. Talk about creating jobs and building housing so everyone can own a house. Talk about expanding the legal immigration system so there is less people sneaking in and more people coming here to work legally. This would be a good place to start teaching about unions but dems hate unions so rip.
Environment - talk about climate change from the perspective of keeping the land healthy so future generations (kids) can enjoy it.
Also scrap any universally unpopular policy like being soft on violent crime/immigration, dei stuff, basically anything that involves showing compassion to a downtrodden person in society that the average American doesn't like. Also maybe call one of the European leaders a pussy just to drum up morale.
Stop being cucked pc libs, to borrow a phrase. Stop the institutional bullshit, no more civility nonsense, call trump a piece of shit and double down on it. When it comes time to talk policy, as in when you are specifically asked about it and not a minute sooner, talk about the opposition's first so everyone knows it's awful. Be aggressive, stop apologizing or trying to take the high road. Be a real god damned person! No fake bullshit, say what you believe and believe what you say. No more shrinking back for some non-existent moderate Republican, fucking stick by what you say and then go farther. Or if you genuinely do have a heelturn, be open about it and go harder in that direction.
Better policy would be very nice, but before any of that they just need to act like real fucking people.
It's the horrific shit that works, unfortunately
Have you ever heard an NRA member say, "The GOP has to earn my vote"?
The GOP does the one fucking thing the NRA asks of them, then adds little goodies like hating minorities and gays.
That's right. NRA members are single issue voters who vote red no matter who.
Occasionally they try to primary Republicans they don't like. But even when they fail to primary a Republican they don't like, they will still vote for that Republican in the general. Because they know that Republican will eventually get sick and tired of the constant primary challenges and come around.
You can only wear someone down if they stick around. Why "punish" a politician by letting Democrats win, when over time you can train them like a dog?
That's how the NRA gets results.
I put together a little list that I think will be helpful for others, because little about what I do personally is going to change. A mini What is to be Done? of sorts.
-
Get organized. Join a Leftist org, find solidarity with fellow comrades, and protect each other. The Dems will not save you, it is up to the Workers to protect themselves. The Party for Socialism and Liberation and Freedom Road Socialist Organization both organize year round, every year, because the battle for progress is a constant struggle, not a single election. See if there is a chapter near you, or start one! Or, see if there's an org you like more near you and join it, the point is that organizing is the best thing any leftist can do.
-
Read theory. A good primer is Blackshirts and Reds. It will help contextualize what fascism is, what causes it, and how to stop it. I can offer a good introductory reading list for Marxism if you'd like, but this is a good starting point.
-
Aggressively combat white supremacy, misogyny, queerphobia, and other attacks on marginalized communities. Cede no ground.
-
Be more industrious, and self-sufficient. Take up gardening, home repair, tinkering. It is through practice that you elevate your problem-solving capabilities. Not only will you improve your skill at one subject, but your general problem-solving muscles get strengthened as well. Theory guides practice, which sharpens theory to be reapplied to better practice.
-
Learn self-defense. Get armed, if practical. Be ready to protect yourself and others. The Democrats will not save us, we must save each other.
-
Be persistent. If you feel like a single water driplet against a mountain, think of the Grand Canyon. Oh, how our efforts pile up! With consistency, every rock, boulder, even mountain, can be drilled through with nothing but steady and persistent water droplets.
Stop playing nice, the most respect I had for the Democrats was when they said things that they later walked back or apologized for. They should have just said them louder.
They're fucking garbage, call them garbage and own it.
Seriously, what would LBJ do and think about today's sad state of affairs, he would have fucking chewed up Nancy Man Trump and shat him out into his shitting lake 😤
This, i think, is genuinely how harris lost. She had the biggest support when they were calling the animals weird and they fell off when they went for the traditional democratic bullshit.
Be a real person with real beliefs, own what you say, and be aggressive. That's the easy, obvious way of coming out ahead.
"We go high when they go low." Was and is a pathetic cop-out to avoid offending pearl clutching assholes who wouldn't stand up for themselves. Call them stupid. Call them terrible. "Call them garbage and own it."
First you gotta get a few billionaires to bankroll the "grassroots" movement... This is probably where the hang up will be
First recognize the most important reason you’re losing, and I hate to be cliche about it, but it’s the Glengarry Glen Ross rule: coffee is for closers only. These are the Glengarry leads and they’re not for you losers.
The Dems simply suck at selling. They suck at critically self examining their own strategy and get high on their own supply—while hardcore Christians within the GOP are meticulously planning for years their long term plays for generational change in their favor. The Supreme Court is the ultimate example of this.
This has nothing to do with policy, being too right or left, etc. You simply (a) suck at selling, (b) are not clearly selling something simple.
Dems can’t sell well to their own customers on the left.
After you address the mechanics of this—the messenger, the message, the product, the ROI, the user and experience—then you can be concerned with policy.
The Dems mistaken think policy is what is selling. It is not. Trump is not selling policy or issues at the end of the day. He’s selling a vision of how to solve the biggest problems.
Sure he’s a pig rapist. The fact that you can’t outsell a pig rapist 78 year old should tell you just how bad you are at selling.
It is simply not about the issues.
Trump doesn't need to sell a vision of anything... He has almost no thoughts of his own except loving being worshipped... Maga TELLS HIM what he's going to support, and then he fucking supports it (so they'll worship him)... Dems should try this whole "support what the people who might vote for you tell you to support" thing
There’s also a lot of cheating, backstabbing, lying, and gross misuse of funds required.
It’s not a thing to be “like” them. We can’t because what they are is stupid, evil, fascist, and wrong. They love power and money and will do literally anything up to and including destroying the actual planet everything lives on to get it.
There’s no “left wing” version of that.
There’s no “left wing” version of that.
Well ...
It's called doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Having the capacity to do negative things with the expected outcome being a net-positive should be seen as something worthwhile. Instead Democrats want to be pussies.
Granted, the Democratic party in this election was a classic case of "Those who don't standfor anything will fall for anything." I don't agree with your assessment of what it takes to win, but agree that the Dem party leaders are pushovers when it comes to playing hardball against the opposition.
You should find a new slur though. Pussies are anything but weak.
Your last sentence is why we lost. No one thinks pussies are strong and if you have to explain you already lost. Get a clue.
trump doesn't sell 'policy' or 'vision' or even the 'concept' of either.
he sells fear and hate.
and ~ 30-40% of the population is feasting on all he can dish up.
Fear and hate (of Trump) was all the Dems were selling too... They literally ran (again) on a platform of "at least we're not him" and that's about it... But the Dems will never outsell Republicans on fear and hate, and they shouldn't even try because the people who might vote for them aren't looking for fear and hate
This is the tunnel vision that causes Dems to lose. This is simply a useless analysis if your goal is to crush the election and win.
You can be defeatist or get practical. We know Trump is beyond bad. He’s outselling. How do we win?
By selling his option as worse. Advertise how it would affect them. Tell them how much his policies cost. Sell it.
This is basically the only thing they tried... You're saying they should have just tried harder at what they were already doing... In reality they needed an entirely different approach
Well, the better approach would be to stop courting so-called "corporate" democrats and actually make a true Progressive People's Party. No one will do it cause no one understands that in order to succeed this People's Party would have to be a simultaneously centralized and yet de-centralized party. No one person can lay claim to leadership in this party. Too much centralized power and you have corruption.
Essentially we need to bring back or attempt to resurrect the Workers & Poor People's Party. The best way forward is riding on true progressive policies that at their core counter-act the effects of things like Project 2025.
No one will do it though. Current so called "leftists" are too afraid to get their hands dirty or to fight fire with fire when it comes to actually arguing or debating the idiotic cretins that helped put Trump and his cronies into power. If every single working class voter banded together and actually supported each other. Then we could get REAL people elected and not just another dipshit with some random law school MBA as their only life experience or education.
Real people with real experiences need to lead us.
Anyone else is just going to take advantage in some way.
İt z'n tu̇nėl vijėn. Ƿėt ðiſ mæn hæz f ſeıl z fılıŋ emboldened t yuz ð N-wṙd, æ Hz ſu̇poṙtṙz hæv con ripıtedlı ðeı aṙ ƿilıŋ t teıṙ ð wṙld t credz f ð tuınıiſt hit v ðæt cit.
spoiler
It isn't tunnel vision. What this man has for sale is feeling emboldened to use the N-word, and his supporters have shown repeatedly they are willing to tear the world to shreds for the tiniest hit of that shit.
Actually be progressive and say fuck off to the MAGA assholes. Don't try and court them, don't campaign with them, and definitely don't compromise with them. Stop compromising with extremists. It only compromises you as it drags you down deeper and deeper.
When Trump first won I cut the maga family and friend out of my life. With this second win I've cut the people who want to "work together" and "it's all the same".
A New New Deal.
An ecomic reformation that advantages labor and forces economic success made through speculative investment to pay heavily back into the commons that made their success possible AND mitigate accumulating society/culture warping levels of wealth, to rebuild public education, to make higher education public and free based on a academic merit because that's what a wealthy society would do if it cared about planting trees for their children whose shade they know they'll never sit in. You know the meaningful stuff we abandoned to chase plastic crap and bigger SUVs and grind culture.
We won't do it. We're boned. The only two parties are bought and paid for. But it's about ecomic equity. We don't have any. The people with all the power/capital will use that power/capital to ensure we won't have any, if not through their for profit media propaganda, through captured government force.
Left wing economic populism.
Tax cuts for the middle class and tax hikes for the rich.
Healthcare subsidies.
Homebuyer programs.
National sick leave.
Childcare credits.
Strengthen unions and weaken restrictions on unions.
Class-based affirmative action for universities - bypassing the race issue and encouraging poor whites to vote D
Holy shit those would kill. We got most of those here and I couldn't imagine living without them.
I'd add fixing the election process. Lots of good ideas out there, pick one.
It's messaging.
Trump has proven this for 3 straight elections, and the Dems need to face reality and play the fucking game.
The average voter doesn't want to be told they're racist or sexist. They don't want to hear that the other guy is a Nazi or a fascist. Even if all that is true.
All they want to hear is "Don't worry, I'm gonna take care of shit". The economy. Jobs. Immigration. Foreign competition. The usual shit. "We're going to fix it, and the other guy ain't".
That's what resonates about the MAGA slogan... The populace wants to believe someone's fixing shit and they can not worry about it.
The Dems need to embrace and pound the fuck out of that messaging, and they can do it without the racist, sexist, xenophobic language the right uses
-
Messaging to appeal to the low-information voters that want to hear we're gonna kick ass. Get them excited and out to the voting booth
-
Keep those masses happy by constantly saying you're fixing it and point to some piddly bullshit. Yell it from the rooftops, insist you're winning
-
Keep the base happy by actually governing. But keep that shit quiet, except when talking to the big donors
Trump has proven this approach works. The average American voter isn't into policy details, they just want to feel like someone's doing something. The Dems need to wake up and act accordingly
The one thing Trump and Bernie had in common was they both started by recognizing and validating people's feeling that shit is fucked up, and saying they were going to change things for the better... One was a lying conman, but most people aren't trying to get that far into the weeds
Nothing.
They would have to stop being liberals to actually run a charismatic candidate with an actual platform that would change the status quo dramatically, be willing to bend and break some rules and norms.
The defining trait of a liberal is an unshakeable faith in the mechanisms of government, that things generally get better, baseless toxic positivity optimism.
When those get blown up, liberals have mental breakdowns and become depressed, instead of doing actual politics, altering the structure of government elements they do control to fight back.
Bare minimum we would need a new FDR.
The secret ingredient is nationalism.
Call China soy and America based.
We need to impose term limits, fix education, reschedule drugs like pot, and pass some amendments to the constitution. Change the supreme Court so the people can recall them by popular vote for things like treason and knowing conflict of interest that they act on. And the electoral college needs an overhaul. Every state should follow the same criteria for choosing electoral voters and they should do ranked voting in addition. We also need to have federal anti-gerrymandering laws etc.
And for God's sakes we need to look into and reform how many senators and congressmen states get because that's just broken as hell.
Thank you for posting here
No prob, Bob 💅
Reach people who don't follow or trust the media.
That's all. That's how the election was lost. Find ways to reach out.
"Don't trust the media" is doublespeak. They trust Fox news. They trust OAN.
Some of them don't anymore. But they do trust random talking head on YouTube or Instagram. And they're not investigating whose payroll that talking head is on.