The people who called us conspiracy theorists and Putin lovers for saying all along that it wasn't Russia will never apologize or acknowledge their mistake, and they'll swallow the next obvious lie without a moment's hesitation.
this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023
291 points (99.7% liked)
news
23397 readers
816 users here now
Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.
Rules:
-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --
-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --
-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --
-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --
-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--
-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--
-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --
-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
every time 
Kind of weird question maybe, I'm up unreasonably late, but is there a term for the thought process that leads someone to a probably true conclusion (such as the US, Norway, and Ukraine collaborated on the nordstream demolition) due to inference/pattern recognition/intuition, without undeniable evidence?
load more comments
(11 replies)
The United States did this, full stop. If Ukraine did it then the EU is fully naked and unprotected.
Yeah this is just setting up Ukraine as the fall guy. I still think it was really the US and Norway, like Seymour Hersch said it was: https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
Genuinely, if this was Ukraine then the EU coast is completely naked and anyone with a boat can fuck their infrastructure up. You can tell the EU knows this story is bullshit because they're not doing huge investigations into security. Libs still buy it though.
If the state department told liberals that a unicorn blew up the pipeline, they would believe it
I still think it was really the US and Norway
As a Norwegian I agree 100%
It's the exact sort of shit that the demented old cold-war fossils who run our military would get on board with lol
i showed my lib coworker this and they fr did the "concerning, looking into it" meme like 
Weird, I was expecting a "This proves Ukraine attacked a NATO country, time to invade Ukraine" response!
i showed my lib coworker this
how do you have the patience? I gave up on this years ago. it always ends with me "looking crazy"
To stop telling the truth for fear of looking crazy, this is a nineteenth type of liberalism.
fuck, you're right
Frankly I wish i'd been more public and out of pocket with my predictions these last couple years, because I stood to gain a lot of cred when they all came true.
The only one I’ve been wrong about was “Russia isn’t going to invade Ukraine, y’all need to calm down”
load more comments
(2 replies)
[cognitive dissonance intensifies]
load more comments
(2 replies)
I don't believe this story. I think it's a limited hangout to cover up the real details of the destruction by US and Norwegians, reported by Seymour Hersh
They will never admit that it was the US, but just moving away from "Russia bombed its own pipeline" is a big deal
load more comments
(1 replies)
That narrative never made any sense, anyways. Like, how did even the most credulous westerner explain that to themselves?
Ze evil Ruzzian orcs, incapable of logic due to their inferior brainpan: "ah, yes, I shall bomb my own pipeline to force the effeminate Europeans to buy oil and gas from the US, this is sure to lead me to victory."
Like, what's the framing there? That Russia blew up its own pipeline to get people to be mad at Ukraine for cutting off their energy supply somehow? And then the only spin at all was that they just had a single journalist who nobody knows by name and hasn't been relevant for 20 years post about it on a website nobody's heard of behind a paywall?
Mark Ames logic: I am very smart, I tell you Putin will never invade Ukraine -> but… Putin invaded Ukraine!! -> Since I am very smart, Putin must be stupid to invade Ukraine -> since Putin is stupid, he is probably stupid enough to blow up his own pipeline
It took Seymour Hersh to get on RWN for him to shut up about this completely stupid argument of his.
Ze evil Ruzzian orcs, incapable of logic due to their inferior brainpan: "ah, yes, I shall bomb my own pipeline to force the effeminate Europeans to buy oil and gas from the US, this is sure to lead me to victory."
I can hear Yugopnik doing his 'ze evil Russian orc' voice in this whole sentence.
load more comments
(2 replies)
The current US Secretary of State literally wrote a book about blowing up Russian gas pipelines. There was always only one suspect here.
Also wouldn't be the first time the US blew up a Russian undersea pipeline. Has been happening since the Soviet era and at this point is a tradition.
I don't buy it. 6 schmucks just rent a sailboat and some deep sea diving equipment? It's a scapegoat. The only country both capable and incentivized to pull it off is the US. US officials and Biden have said many times they would destroy it. They just can't be seen as responsible for directly attacking Russia and Europe.
It's ridiculous on its face
load more comments
(2 replies)
This is diversionary propaganda in my opinion. The goal is to hand over blame of the attack to Ukraine so it doesn't harm the US in diplomacy with Europe and Germany going forwards.
Oh and we're supposed to believe that Ukraine can pull this off but not be able to get the Crimean Bridge?
load more comments
(6 replies)
Didn't Biden slip up and kinda admit it at one point?
Don’t have the video link with me, but 3 weeks before Russia invaded, Biden said “if Russia invades, then we will put an end to Nord Stream”, a reporter then asked “how exactly?” and he said “I assure you we’ll be able to do it.”
Yes he threatened it before it happened
He did, before they bombed the pipeline even.
Clear bullshit, right?
If Ukraine could pull this off, I could pull this off. I refuse to believe that international infrastructure could be so vulnerable.
Won't know until in a few decades it all gets declassified but my bet was always a US Navy Special Warfare team, aka SEAL team. That is who the US uses for such operations. Previous week there had been US Navy units doing exercises in the general area. The level of hostility, type of aggressive narrative control, and how key US outlets were already standing ready to suppress certain details made it suspicious from the start.
The US uses the same playbook again and again, makes people suspicious even when the US might not have been involved in events.
load more comments
(7 replies)
Even this would be an act of war against most of Europe
European vassals know better than to question the infinite wisdom of their American masters
load more comments
(2 replies)
is there a more cucked country in the world than Germany?
The UK. Cucked to both unwavering Atlanticism towards the USA, and a monarchy. Left the EU for the stupidest of all possible reasons. Sent Boris Johnson to sabotage peace deals in Ukraine. Terf island. It just goes on and on.
The UK is definitely the answer. And worse, people are totally, willfully blind to it.
I remember pointing out where most of the money was coming from for leaving rhe EU (it wasn't Russia, it was American libertarian think tanks, software companies, and healthcare companies) as well as the money that was spent against Corbyn on things like the 'Integrity Initiative' smear abd disinfo campaigns (US gov, UK gov, Facebook, US & UK arms manufacturers, Saudi gov) and people still said 'I don't know about that, why would America care? The papers say it was Russia before the very same people complain about how American our media has gotten.
People complain about the culture war shit and how it feels like an American import, but if you point out that right wing American think tanks and orgs (from TPUSA to evangelical anti-trans orgs) are funnelling a shit loaf of money here you get blank stares and muttering about how it's probably because we're so similar to the US.
Our prime minister is a de facto billionaire who has US citizenship and didn't even live here a lot of the time before becoming PM. Keir Starmer, after being a loyal dog of the British security state for years, regularly met with intelligence chiefs in the US long before he was head of the Labour Party. MPs as a whole I've met tend to love the US and have ideas about moving there 'one day' and the smarter/wealthier ones have stock portfolios full of US healthcare companies etc that are lined up to further privatise the NHS. I knew MPs who took paid trips to the US to form working groups with what would have been the Hilary admin before and after 2016 to study, I shit you not, electability, which of course meant building a Democrat-like party whose job it is to completely kill off the left, not to mention all those nice US lobbyists they got to meet.
But again, if you point that out, people look at you like it's some far out conspiracy theory. The very same people who today complain about America lying and dragging us into the Iraq War are the same people who argue that America doesn't have any control over our foreign policy today.
load more comments
(4 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
They're really pushing for that Punished Zelensky arc, aren't they? 
To be a friend of the West...
load more comments
(1 replies)
view more: next ›