this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2023
200 points (90.3% liked)

politics

19088 readers
3540 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 72 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Just from his huge switch pre-stroke from "progressives are the future, vote for me I'm a progressive" to openly complaining people think he's a progressive and multiple hard right views...

I really think he's one of the people that get big personality changes after a stroke.

My mom went the other way and became a much happier person and more sympathetic to issues facing others, unfortunately the change can happen either way.

It's either that, or he pulled a Sinema and just lied about being a progressive to get elected

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago

I think people may have been looking at him with rose-tinted glasses.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

multiple hard right views

I haven't seen any hard-right views from Fetterman.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (13 children)

His immigration stance is bipartisan. Bernie himself wants to limit immigration. I'm a radical immigration proponent (wanna be a citizen and land in USA soil, I'd make you a citizen), but the reality is my opinion is deeply unpopular.

Sadly, protectionism is rampant in the Democratic party.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21143931/bernie-sanders-immigration-record-explained

Israel is similarly bipartisan and not hard-right at all. 61% of Democrat voters support Biden's Israel stance, even if they think Israel is being too aggressive

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/17/democrats-israel-polls/

I absolutely guarantee you his constituents are higher than national average in favor of the policies he is stating.

load more comments (13 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

I'm wondering if he's posturing for a future presidential run, and the party has told him that he needs to temper his progressive stances if he ever wants to run as a Democrat.

If so, definitely a bummer as he seemed like the exact type to not do that.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

I'm also curious how biased the information they are given during briefings is. I can totally see how the information the people have and the information presented (or not presented) in briefings could influence congresspeoples opinions.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 64 points 11 months ago (5 children)

he's got a quarter million dollars of Israeli money in his pocket. I wonder if that might warp his fucking perception.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

I doubt he was exactly lovey-dovey to Palestine before he got that money.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 49 points 11 months ago

Media has been warping the perception of the genocide by Israel of Palestine for more than half a century.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 11 months ago (24 children)

Ignores apartheid. Ignores genocide. Ignores occupation. Claims the full history isnt represented on tiktok.

load more comments (24 replies)
[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Yeah, I really want to hear senior Dem leadership tell the youth they’re listening to the “wrong” news sources about the Israel/Palestine conflict. /s

Is he in the pocket of AIPAC or simply never considered that support for Israel is support for genocide?

Get on the right side of history, dude.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 11 months ago

you consider him senior dem leadership?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I agree that Congress is not on the right side of history here, but he's not entirely wrong. Few people have nuanced views that say Israel and Hamas are bad, and instead try to oversimplify to give people a side to root for.

It's a clusterfuck of politics, war crimes, and ancient grudges, and Palestine is stuck between.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

I think there are more than a few people who feel that Israel and Hamas are both bad actors here.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I hope you're right, because that hasn't been my experience.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (10 children)

Those of us who feel like both are to blame tend to be outshouted by the "I ALWAYS STAND WITH ISRAEL NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO" and the "HAMAS ARE JUST FREEDOM FIGHTERS SO ANYTHING THEY DO IS JUSTIFIED" groups. And if we speak up to point out that both groups have issues, we get attacked by both groups for not being on a side and especially for not being on their side.

One of the big problems with the Middle East is that it's a messy situation and people like simple narratives. They don't want to hear a hundred plus years of attacks, revenge attacks, generational trauma, etc. That's not easy to resolve. Instead, people want to know that A is always good and B is always bad. That's nice and simple and easy to fix. You just eliminate the bad people and all is well.

Sadly, the real world is rarely so black and white.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

As an Irish person I can say with some experience that what Hamas is doing is not justified but it is pretty much inevitable. And unless Israel are really going to continue their genocide, all they've done is perpetuate this inevitability.

load more comments (9 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

If Mike Tyson fought a 9 year old for calling him a bitch...

Yeah, they're both in the wrong. But post fight it wouldn't be rational to say they're both at equally at fault.

Especially if Mike didn't stop with that kid and just beat up every child in the room

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I get what you're saying, but I think that analogy doesn't really capture the gravity of what happened. Both of them have committed egregious war crimes, which means people aren't just beat up, they're dead. Israel has certainly committed an order of magnitude more, but I don't think it does the victims justice to imply Israel is the big, strong adult who merely got kicked in the shins by Hamas.

I think your analogy could be improved if you changed the 9yo vs Mike Tyson to the 9yo's adult cousin who fights Mike Tyson for the family honor but also abuses the 9yo for fun. Still doesn't capture the gravity of the number of innocent people who have died, but it at least represents the parties involved a bit better.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (17 children)

You can be on the side of civilians. Pretty simple actually

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I agree. I don't see other people (other than a relative few on the Fediverse) who see it that way, because they want a clear villain to defeat.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (16 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago

Ok, I followed the happenings in Gaza via Tiktok, among other things. My perception is that the IDF bombs the shit out of the Gaza strip and nowhere is safe. 20000 people died, many more severly disfigured. What is wrong with my perception?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Tiktok is highly partial in general. So are US Senators.

He's probably not wrong in this case though in the past the Chinese don't push one view, they push both extremes to purposefully create division (eg they fund both BLM and proud boys)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (4 children)

they fund both BLM and proud boys

Where can I find more about that?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's just basic psyops, Russia also has a successful history of propping up opposing factions.

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt [FUD] are tools to misinform people and erode trust in their social organizations, so that a malicious actor can divide and conquer their enemy

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This feels quite familiar as a European. Political unrest seems to have increased drastically.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago

It is.

But the accurate perception is also really bad. Israel is committing genocide

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago

What about the UN? Is the OHCHR a warped perspective?

How about Reuters?

What's the limit? Because this is just the tip of the iceberg. We've got then using 2000 pound bombs in civilian areas on "tunnel entrances" they have no evidence were in use by Hamas. We've got then bombing hospitals and showing us standard security guard equipment for the middle east in an attempt to portray a military command post. They lied about a calendar that was plainly visible on the wall.

At what point do you admit they are purging the Warsaw ghetto?

load more comments
view more: next ›