this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
58 points (100.0% liked)
chapotraphouse
13538 readers
777 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That must have been a dark time in your life. I do not know what to think of what you just said.
Truth be told, I've known many former conservatives and former libertarians that have turned into Marxist-Leninists.
But anti-Semitism... That I can't get over, but you are not the same person, from what I can tell.
I do not know what to think...
With how omnipresent Anti-Semitism and racism are, I feel like we have to have an attitude of forgiveness towards these sorts of issues. There is no bright line to define what is casual discrimination and what's serious discrimination. Most everybody building a life in the western world are racist and anti-semitic. How do we define how much is too much to be considered acceptable once they move past it? Is someone objectively worse because they took the thoughts that "everybody" has and actually owns those beliefs?
As bad as white supremacy is, I actually have a certain level of respect for the people who actually own their beliefs instead of being spineless libs who still believe the same things but don't think about said beliefs enough to actually engage with said beliefs. Being a shitposting racist in the past doesn't feel like enough to totally write somebody off because whenever you break it down pretty much every westerner is a shitposting racist, it just depends on where you draw the line between casual discrimination and real discrimination. With the amount of dogwhistles going around now, it's easier than ever to be anti-semitic and have a hidden shield that most people don't even see. If someone can own their shit and were essentially just being internet shitposters (not actually doing shit in person), they should be redeemable imo.
Yes, this is true.
You're right. I have to forgive others. We can't just replicate hate like the other side does. And Engels said that "bourgeous morality" (which often sends people to prison for decades or for life) is not good either. Hell, I'm turning into a prison abolitionist recently (though I'm still working out the quirks). I should be able to understand, of course. And SorosFootSoldier admitted to what they did. That's good, at least. Alright, I'll let it go.
I was heavily into drinking and posting on 4chan. I bought into racism and antisemitism first ironically, then eventually, unironically and started hating poc and Jewish people. It was indeed a very dark time. It's wild because I started out as a libertarian and then slowly began adopting fash talking points. But now I'm an MLM so I guess there can be a bridge from libertarianism to it.
I see.
Well, the reason you gave me mixed feelings is that I come from a community that would've banned you (I think) for even saying what you just said, but you're not the same person, clearly, and you're in a rough spot, from what I can tell, so I... guess I can't judge.
I wouldn't say things like this out loud even if I had ever done anything like this during by pre-Marxist days. Even so, you chose to admit it and I think that was due to profuse guilt on your part.
I think I need to realize that not every place on the Internet is like my own abode. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here in how I'm reacting to this situation.
It's probably less here than it used to be on the subreddit, but you'd be surprised how many people back on the subreddit had some 4chan in their history. The sub was one of the few places on reddit where instead of being strangled by liberal civility politics, you could just openly tell fascists and other terrible people to fuck off and die. In hindsight the crossover appeal was pretty obvious, despite the polar opposite politics.
Which subreddit?
r/ChapoTrapHouse. Originally an unofficial fan sub for the podcast of the same name, but it quickly outgrew them and just became a general hive of leftist shitposting and theoryposting. This site was made to replace it after the sub got banned a little over 3 years ago I think.
Oh yes, I remember those days.
People forget that it's not just former liberals or "disaffected BernieBros" that become communists.
Also, it was banned, but later, you got people gravitating to /r/communism (which, I think, was already there since 2007) and other versions of Chapo subreddits, which would balloon in activity.
Now, after /r/GenZedong was suspended of being on the front page of Reddit, a lot of people have gravitated to /r/TheDeprogram, from what I can tell and a few smaller subreddits.
TheDeprogram can't be long for this world imo but I like their vibe. Probably both for the same reason lmao, reddit doesn't like cool people being cool.
lol I hate both /r/GenZedong and /r/TheDeprogram; the general culture is not good, but /r/TheDeprogram is better than /r/GenZedong was at its height, from what I can tell.
Actual discussion, even if not always a friendly atmosphere.
The atmosphere here has absolutely mellowed out compared to the sub and its direct parallels. I for one don't mind some raucousness and shitposting (I've got 4chan in my own history too despite "only" being a dumb lib at worst, so big surprise there) and I'm pretty forgiving of the occasional brainworm when the overall community is saturated with better takes to drown out and eventually replace the brainworms. But I love the chill vibes here too.
On another note, I do like the chill vibes here too.
Are we talking about /r/TheDeprogram or Hexbear?
I'm from a community that's all pretty serious. We study theory and all that. We have discussion consistently. We have a lot of Chinese members, an academic scholar who saves books from extinction, and a journalist from outside the USA. We're not that shit-posty and I think that's good for actual learning, whereas Stalin memes, for example, are known for being exaggerative or even false to a degree. Also, a lot of us are in orgs rather than being lower-case "c" communists.
Both to different extents, although tbf I'm less familiar with the deprogram sub.
This isn't explicitly or even implicitly a place for deep discussions, although that's not at all unwelcome with the book club threads and such. CTH and its descendants have always been this idiosyncratic mix of a place to vent and commiserate about capitalism, posting bits of theory (sometimes for discussion and sometimes just into the void, contributing to the ambient leftist atmosphere), and digesting theory into more-postable memes that then leak out into the wider internet. Posting obviously doesn't hold a candle to actual praxis (and mad respect to you and anyone else for the praxis btw), but I like to think that generating ambient leftism on the internet, even if it's a bit shitposty, is a net positive too.
I agree. You have my word on that. We're at least winning culturally thanks to you all. I think that that's worth something, at least.
idk about winning yet, but seeing "stalin saved the world from fascism" in the wild on twitter and reddit gives me some hope
Folks here are directly responsible for me joining the org that I did and in part the work we are doing out on Pine Ridge and eventually elsewhere.
Posting can be praxis, but it can also be a distraction.
I've shared on here a bunch of times my own journey from being a reactionary to coming around to leftism, I think it was before you joined. But I make no excuses for it, I was bad, I fucked up a lot, but now I have to admit I feel some pride in myself for becoming a better person.
That's good! Perhaps that's how it should be. We have to feel a sense of pride in getting from point A to point B, even if point A was rock-bottom.
Okay, thanks for being with us, SorosFootSoldier.
I consider it a bottom for sure, a very low point in my life, thanks.
I was also at a low point and believed bad things, but it's whatever at this point. Past is the past, I suppose.
Tell you what, it feels a hell of a lot better to be where I'm at today. Like I still get angry and shit, but it feels like a righteous anger, stuff I should be upset at for the right reasons.
That's great!
My life has also improved and I've been nearing the end of my depression so I'm cautiously optimistic that I will beat it for good this time.
Wish you the best comrade.
Same to you!
Oh yeah, and if you ever need funds again, like last time, I'll try to send some your way.
Appreciate it.