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Make no mistake. His stance on Israel could make him lose.
He's still got my vote...
The alternative is Trump and the end of democracy in our nation. If you're not terrified of Trump winning in November, you either haven't been paying attention or you're a moron.
Vote Biden. Not because you agree or disagree with his war policies or think he's been a good or bad president. Vote because the alternative is so much worse. Vote because we literally have Nazis schmoozing publicly with the other party like it's no big deal! Vote because you don't want an actual rapist in office! Vote because you want to be able to vote again in 4 years. Vote because you want your children to grow up in a nation that's still free.
Just fucking vote!
Which is insane given that the man to whom he'd lose would be far worse for Palestineans...
The only way it makes sense is if the people who'd not vote over Israel don't actually care about Palestineans so much as being on the "right"/socially cool side of the issue. Otherwise not voting for Biden over trump because of Israel is like refusing to ride home with your friend because they had a beer and instead hopping in the car with the guy who was slamming tequila all night.
This is it. Politics is messy, and people don't want to get their hands dirty making a hard choice.
I think those people would think that defending Biden from critique over Palestine is more of an indication of not caring than protesting against it by threatening not to vote for him.
If it was just critique, people wouldn't be genuinely planning not to vote for him, handing Trump the win. It's textbook cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I'm certain there are some who feel like it's just people who don't care (and in most cases, they're wrong), but the rest have such a myopic view of the world—they're gonna be the ones to stop Biden and remain morally superior—that they forget there's more at stake than just Gaza, such as LGBTQ rights to exist, freedom from religion, and continuing democracy.
And if it was just critique (absent any threat of action), then there'd be no pressure for dialogue (which is why leftists regard liberals to be functionally the same as reactionaries, btw). It should be alarming to everyone here if Biden is willing to risk 'handing Trump the win' in order to avoid taking a firm stance against Israel's genocide in Gaza.
People claim they want to work for change, but often prove unwilling to exercise what little power they have to push for it. You're right though; if Biden proves unwilling to concede on issues that are non-negotiable to some of us, then people will be forced to look elsewhere to pressure that change, and what and where that looks like really remains to be seen. So far, two people have self-immolated in protest of the US's involvement in the Palestinian genocide. I think we should all be very concerned about what further actions people will take if the Biden administration continues their unconditional support of Israel, the least of which should be who ends up voting in november.
Yes. Is correct that liberal voters want Palestine enough to support trump. And this is right because trump is a strong leader such as Putin who alone can bring Palestine away from the evil Democratic Joe Biden.
Many people have been saying to not vote in order to show support for peace, and this is correct view. Also many of my texting friends are agreeing with me and I am a person with the sexually pronouns so that is true. I also work in unions and am woman of color.
It seems very much to me like people trying to keep some ideal of purity for themselves, and if someone who unironically says, "genocide Joe" would care to correct me I'm listening, but it's unclear how letting the guy who changed the us stance on settlements being unlawful to being totally cool win because of your unwillingness to recognize that this world is actively on fire, and we have to live with whatever future we steer to regardless.
"If you decide not to decide, you still have made a choice."
Are you really expecting someone who lost relatives in Gaza to vote for the guy who had the power to do something about it and didn't?
This campaign is telling Biden that there's a voting block that holds the balance of power in a swing state, and all he has to do to get their votes is pick up the phone, tell Bibi to wrap it up or he gets no more weapons (and yes, it is that simple. Reagan did it when Israel invaded Lebanon).
But instead of meeting voters where they are, Democrats seem to fall back to their usual MO of blaming voters, instead of winning votes by doing things that are popular with voters.
It makes them feel better to think it's just online leftists doing purity politics rather than a deeply angered population who have been giving him every opportunity to turn away from this and mostly just treated as an inconvenience.
It's either online purity politics or damn near zero understanding of consequences.
"I don't like what Biden didn't do for Palestinias, I'm going to help someone who would be way worse for Palestinians! Yay!"
If I shoot your son and explain credibly why the other guy would have also shot your daughter, that’s a cold comfort.
To be clear, you're choosing the guy who'd shoot both?
I’m explaining why people don’t want to choose either, because both of them will kill their children.
Unfortunately, failing to choose means choosing the worse option.
Though, had all the young pro Palestine leftists bothered to show up during the 2020 or 2016 primaries, there might be a more progressive president and thus a better set of choices. Unfortunately, showing up to the primaries seems anathema to the under 30 crowd, hence, two terrible choices.
You may not like it, but that’s democracy- even progressive people you wish would vote for Biden might not, even if it means trump wins. Some of them are accelerationists who will vote for Trump directly, no matter how ill advised that may be.
And that's their right!
BUT, to complain about the effects of their own choices is absurd.
"I made a conscious decision to not vote progressive and now a centrist politician is enacting centrist policies with entirely predictable outcomes! How could this have happened?!?"
Luckily the people in this article are making their voices heard, looking for a more progressive option. I think people will complain no matter who gets voted in, especially if a person they didn’t vote for won. But I don’t know that people who are voting against Biden because of Palestine will wish he had won if trump wins, I think they might wish Biden had taken this hint and acted differently, but that’s not the same thing.
And if they'd done so in the primaries, that change might have done some good for Palestineans.
Not the same thing to us rich westerners, no. And it's not the same to the Palestineans who would suffer worse with a trump presidency.
This position makes zero sense. If you give a damn about Palestineans and the worse option wins, how could you not wish the better option had won?
The folks considering not voting either don't actually give a damn about Palestinean well being or are mind bogglingly counter productive.
There is no universe in which someone is simultabeously: a) genuinely concerned about Palestineans B) considering not voting Biden because of Palestine and C) has at least the intelligence of a turnip.
This is the primary.
I don’t think you understand how bad things are under Biden- would you actually vote for someone under whose approval your relative thirsted to death? If so, congratulations on your compartmentalization ability. That would be essentially endorsing those actions and many, many people aren’t able to do that.
Against an incumbent. The meaningful primaries were 2020, 2016.
"My relative died, who cares if my choices actively make things worse for those who are still alive?"
Sucks to have that sociopath as a relative I guess.
That lacks basic empathy.
I know! It is, at best, sociopathic to deliberately make things worse for people you claim to care about.
Very clever. I mean that you are demonstrating no empathy for people who have lost a great deal.
You're infantalizing these people.
We both agree on these two facts right:
So, the question really is do you think so little of these folks that you think they can't comprehend those basic facts? Do you believe they are incapable of simple logic? Or do you think they are sociopaths? Or do you actually think they are disingenuous about their feelings for Palestineans?
Out of the two of us, I'm the only one dignifying these people as functional, albeit grieving, adults. If you'd ever had to deal with the mountains of paperwork following an unexpected death you'd know that grief doesn't turn you into a child.
We don’t agree on those two facts.
I don’t know if I truly believe there will be Palestinians by next January, so I don’t know if trump could be worse for them. If he takes office, he might be more enthusiastic, but I don’t think Netanyahu will stop as long as someone in the White House supports him. When Biden does it while holding his nose, it’s not less useful support.
Not voting may help trump or Biden, depending on your jurisdiction.
Oh boy, those are some pretty silly arguments. I can see why you're supporting this nonsense then.
Unless what, you think Bibbi is going to start dropping nukes? Really?
You’re rude to me too! How fun. This is my last reply.
I absolutely see the escalation that has already occurred from each month to the next and understand how things could get much worse, much more quickly, without nuclear bombs (think about Dresden).
A progressive voter in a solid blue area who will not vote for Biden but may have voted in this primary could absolutely help him by not voting for a third party candidate.
Except, Dresden had a population of 600,000 and lost ~ 25000 people and many folks lived there throughout and after the war. Just like Palestinians will. And of course, if you read the news you'd know that Israel aims to have the bulk of their boots on the ground phase before the summer.
This is just silly. You might as well say Biden is actually helping Palestinians by not having the American military bomb Gaza.
I think at this point, you know how nonsensical your position is, you just don't have the maturity to admit it. At least, I hope that's what's up. Because these are truly childish arguments and if this nonsense is what we on the left have to offer then we deserve to lose elections.
People have outright stated to me that they are doing purity politics. While I cannot prove that every single person I suggest is likely doing so, is actually doing so, I am not making such claims in a vacuum.
You took a handful of anecdotes from your online life and decided "I understand the electorate"? Do you think ~15% of Michigan is online leftists?
Any excuse necessary to continue support for genocide. It's interesting to see the very first policy centrists don't immediately abandon when they encounter pressure.
I took a handful of anecdotes from my online life and decided that people I encounter online have a decently high probability of being more examples of the same thing.
True, just another reason that could make him lose in 2024.
Yep.
Billionaires own the media, and billionaires really really really want to make sure the furthest left America goes is neoliberals.
So anything that isn't 100% Biden gets shouted down as undemocratic, which is so hypocritical it almost breaks my brain.
Biden is a bad candidate, and ignoring it and running him anyways it what may allow trump to win.
If trump wins, billionaires are fine. If Biden wins, they're still fine.
The only way they lose is if instead of Biden there's someone who's platform matches what Dem voters want.
The problem is anti-Biden proponents never provide a viable candidate who can beat both Trump and Biden in November when asked to do so.
Whinge about Biden all you want, but unless an alternative is provided, it's shouting into the void at best and helping Trump at worst.
I support what Michigan did, and I hope Biden gets the message, but I also hope they're not so far up their own asses that they forget that handing the presidency to Trump in November won't actually solve the problem of genocide and will likely bring along other human rights violations.
They've proposed Sanders twice, and while he's not running this time (and at this stage too old), he beat Trump by huge margins in every head to head poll, both cycles. Unfortunately the corporate media made sure they pushed their corporate friendly candidates (Clinton in 2016, Biden in 2020) instead of creating a fair playing field.
You could see in this cycle as well where Marianne Williamson and Dean Phillips did not get any airtime, while on the Republican side candidates that were polling below 1% got entire CNN town halls. (Not to mention how third party candidates get treated).
Plus Gavin Newsom has already told these people to fuck off.