askchapo

Of course feds are going to try shit. What did you expect?

Did you forget them starting shit during the George Floyd protests?

Don't let it get you down. This is a war, monsters are going to act like monsters. You just have to keep strong despite them.

I stand with Hamas and support October 7th

This feeling is liberalism leaving your body.

This is why I don't think the John Olivers of the world are part of the radicalization pipeline.

Like if you have a problem with support for Hamas, you have not accepted the severity of the crimes being committed on the Palestinian people. Any movement to stop the Genocide needs to accept the severity of the crimes being committed or they will be diverted the moment liberal Queen AOC comes down to the protests to pretend to care.

we stand with Hamas and let’s do one hundred more October 7s

Death to America

we stand with Hamas and let’s do one hundred more October 7s

Waow

Meanwhile just in Johannesburg alone:

Trying to get the anti-semetic accusations to stick I would imagine. Not that the actions of Oct 7th and Hamas are, but the public would certainly perceive this as antisemetic.

Some people in this thread really do need to

Violent opposition to genocide is of course justified, but publicly chanting supporting for an event that is, at the very least, widely public perceived as a massacre of civilians, is pretty shitty protest tactics at best. And discrediting fed-work at worst.

Critical support for Hamas. They should do more violent resistance to the IDF, and sadly civilians will die, but that aspect is an unfortunate necessity, not a thing to be lauded. Hamas themselves say they made mistakes in that attack.

People should not stand with them on every issue and event; overall obviously fighting a genocide makes them worthy of support.

Sometimes I wonder if people who pull stuff like that (I've had similar experiences) are feds or if they just don't realize that the shitposting stays in the designated shitposting areas of the internet and can't be allowed to leak out to IRL.

Some of them, and I mean this literally, wanted the crowd to chant “we support October 7” and “we stand with Hamas”.

These both chants are pretty lukewarm. Both are objectively good things to say too. October 7 was not a massacre. What it is perceived as is irrelevant to this fact. Hamas actually showed a lot more restraint than I would have expected and I'm pretty sure Israelis killed more of their own than Hamas did. Normalising support of Oct 7 is funny in my books and does not feel like fed behaviour.

Here I am thinking we should start chanting "death to america" and "break the back of the Fourth Reich"

reading these comments and realizing that there are tons of leftists, here and elsewhere, who quietly believe all the right things, but cannot emotionally deal with the fact that anti-imperialist communism isn't as popular as DNC Vote-ism and never will be, so they fedjacket anyone who can on political-tactical grounds.

I stand with Hamas.

I understand the optics are bad in the US. I still believe it and I'll say it. I don't think there's a way to believe otherwise if you oppose genocide and you fully understand the history of the occupation and of resistance to colonialism. Maybe there's a lot more we could be doing to educate people (more posting!), but I think it's a mistake to deny your actual beliefs in service of the carefully crafted PR produced message that will immediately transform a fully propagandized American liberal into a comrade. For decades we in the West tried depicting the Palestinian people as passive observers of their own destruction, and it somehow has done little to weaken the racist image of the bloodthirsty terrorist. Maybe we need to rely more on the truth: that Palestinians have always fought back, and have not given up.

Possibly feds but honestly some people got a bit juiced that public sentiment is shifting in what seems like a big way, forget where most people are at, at least as long as "supporting the IDF" is still less taboo in the mainstream I think more people who rhetorically "support Hamas" will actually say it than mean it.

They might also be forgetting where most people are at & supremely confident that almost all of the non-militarized Israelis killed in/around Al-Aqsa Flood were killed by the IDF. Which is certainly plausible, I'd feel comfortable assuming it's true but like a lot of things it'll probably be a distant memory by the time we know certainly.

Ideally the *world* could come together to intervene and stop Israel, but sometimes we deal with what we have.

You know that Hamas isn’t made up of irrationally and bloodthirsty grunts?

Similar to the revolting slaves that killed „all“ the white people in haiti. „Violent“ organized groups are usually symptomatic of more peaceful methods failing and have been proven historically willing to „spare“ their oppressiors civilian population, if they don’t stand in their way. Nevermind that most Israelis aren’t civilians but armed settlers/soldiers, similar to the neofeudal uralic wehrmacht-bauer concept of the third reich.

1- It's literally their job to ruin/coopt/disrupt/discredit these kind of cool things. Especially when it's popular.

2- Sometimes legit cool (or seemingly cool) people are stupid/insane

3-

“we support October 7” and “we stand with Hamas”

This but unironically.

hamas did nothing wrong

Let me ask you this, it’s 1943. The Warsaw Ghetto uprising takes place, news spread all over the world. A protest against nazi germany occurs and people chant “The uprising was justified”, “we stand with the resistance”. Would you balk at Jewish violence committed towards the nazi regime? They killed cops and military officers, those cops and officers used to be farmers, accountants, and more. They were also someone’s fathers, uncles and sons. Was it not justified?

Paolo Freire wrote in Pedagogy of the Oppressed that violence committed by the oppressed cannot be compared to violence committed by the oppressors. Organizing a resistance and escaping an open air concentration camp and attacking their guards, and kidnapping people living near those camps, unbothered and unconcerned by the oppression happening nearby, is not the violence of the oppressor.

The speakers may or may have not been feds. I see some of viral out of context clips and cringe. But Liberation is not clean, specially when the oppressors put up a resistance. There’s nothing honorable about resisting, it’s just our deeply and powerful need to survive by any means necessary.

Would you rather just like, let those trying to villianize Hamas be successful? When Hamas are doing heroic things and doing things like fighting against genocide and being a major force against everything Israel doing? Like why should any ground be given to those who want to condemn Hamas? Fuck anyone trying to condemn Hamas

I support Hamas and I support the military struggle against Israeli occupation to the hilt. The Palestinian people have the legal right to militarily resist occupation, and the October 7th attack is a realization of that (that of course has been widely maligned and lied about by Western media). I also think that there are right and wrong ways to approach this topic to maintain popular support for a protest movement in the west, and come off as bloodthirsty in respect to any issue and you'll lose people. You have to maintain a messaging that does not cede ground to incorrect Western narratives, though - so this requires some careful thought. Ultimately, those people who have no sympathy for the resistance and just want the fighting to stop have an incorrect position that must be challenged.

I also think it's uncomradely to be so hostile to our friends on HexBear. Some people on here always assume the worst and start laying in with the personal attacks and unkind words. I don't think it's acceptable. We should correct others where possible in a way that respects them.

Hmmmm.............feds will attempt to portray the Palestinian movement as crazed antisemites, and will do this by claiming that everyone supports Hamas/Oct7, as public opinion has not yet turned in the favor of these.............but also supporting Hamas/Oct7 is by all means the correct position, and it is proven time and time again to be a losing strategy to cave in to liberal optics by refusing to challenge comfort..............both of these things can be true at the same time............'tis quite a pickle indeed..............hmmmmmm, yes, quite................ [smokes oversized pipe sitting in the shade of a large oak tree, and falls asleep]

They are trying to justify their narrative that palestine supporters are antisemetic

So how does poop taste?

You should critically support Hamas in their resistance to occupation and so should the people you brought with you.

Protests are meant to push back against the status quo and be a space for sharing understandings and strategies for resistance. They should not be a space that is ideologically comfortable for gullible liberals. If you want liberals to shift you need to get them to read or you need to get them to try organizing and let the failures teach them how the system actually works. Or you need to use these moments to explain critical support to them.

I agree, October 7 is history now and Hamas isn't the issue, Israel's genocide is.