this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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The democrats haven’t held a legitimate primary since 2008!

In 2008 it was a genuine competition between Obama, Hillary, and a handful of other lesser known politicians. Obama won the general in a landslide.

In 2012 Obama ran unopposed. Obama won the general.

In 2016 the democrats rigged the primary against sanders for Hillary, and to absolutely no one’s surprise who was paying attention, Hillary lost the general. Why? she didn’t genuinely win the primary. Shocking!

In 2020, refusing to learn mistakes from 2016, the democrats once again screwed over bernie and didn’t run a legitimate primary - rigged it so that all the candidates except no-path-to-win Warren exited the race to split the progressive vote away from bernie. Joe biden won by the skin of his teeth, and he would of lost if it weren’t for the country reacting to trumps handling of covid.

In 2024, once again refusing to learn the democrats didn’t even bother with a primary, ran an old demented geezer as a presidential candidate, realized that wasn’t going to work, and then anointed unelected Kamala Harris who didn’t even need to compete in a primary.

And they’re shocked they lost?! These people make way too much money to be this stupid.

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[–] [email protected] 82 points 6 days ago (6 children)

I can't stop thinking about how in 2016, my conservative grandmother watched the primary debates and told me she actually thought Bernie made a lot of good points.

And then she went on to vote for Donald Trump in November.

This, I think, is the disconnect the DNC keeps failing to recognize.

We just keep nominating milquetoast centrists whose message is little more than "maintain the status quo", when nobody is happy with the status quo.

But we have to run centrist candidates, they say, or else we'll lose all the voters in the center!

If that's how it works, then why is the GOP winning by doing the exact opposite?

In a world where rent keeps going up but wages stay the same, people are scared and frustrated, and they don't feel like their frustrations are heard.

Along comes a smooth-talking con man who tells them, "I know you're angry at the world, and I'm going to give you a scapegoat to blame it on. It's the immigrants' fault. It's trans people's fault. It's the woke left's fault. It's whatever target I tell you to hate next's fault. And if you elect me, I will stick it to these people in order to Make America Great Again!"

Meanwhile, the best we can do is "Vote for me because everything that other guy said is horrifying." That's it. That's the only real sales pitch we have for Harris. But no matter how terrible the other guy is, it reflects horribly on us that we can't even talk about our own candidate's merits at all.

We need to run a candidate who can say, "I too know you're angry at the world. And I'm here to offer real solutions, not snake oil, and more importantly, not the status quo either."

The difference between the right and left here is that the right actually likes their guy. And if not even we like our candidates, why should voters?

Alas, we learned nothing in 2016 and I suspect the DNC will continue to learn nothing now.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 6 days ago

The dnc is absolutely not gonna learn a god damn thing except to once again give a tongue lashing to the left while making out with corporate America and the military industrial complex.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Every Republican family member except one that I've asked about Bernie has said more or less the following:

I like him, I like that he's not Dem/Repub, he's got the country's best interest at heart, etc.

Then it's usually followed by how he'd never get a chance, and then it revolves back to why Dems suck and repubs rule, or at best, "they're both the same."

You are 100% right: people want change, they want progress, and regardless of how shitty he is, Trump got things done that his base wanted.

Clinton, then Biden, and now Harris, promise marginal improvements to the status quo while dismissing large swaths of their electorate that don't fall in line.

If they ran progressive candidates with progressive policies, they'd pull voters from all over. But they wont, hence, fascism.

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[–] [email protected] 84 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The 14th amendment should have been the end of Trump, period. But Democrats don't want to look partisan and now look where we are.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I seen to remember a bunch of 14th amendment lawsuits that got shut down by SCOTUS a few days before primaries started.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, that's why Obama should have packed SCOTUS, fuck the optics and just do what's right. We saw this coming and still Democrats assumed terrible people won't be terrible given the chance

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (7 children)

I hate Obama but nobody not even my cynical self saw things going this blatantly corrupt.

If he packed the court back then it could of sparked a civil war.

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 6 days ago (2 children)

The billionaires, who already owned the whole thing, did not want it. We got what we got. This downfall started long before 2008.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 days ago (2 children)

You act like they'd have "lost" if Kamala won...

They win either way, just different amounts.

Meanwhile the average American always loses, just different amounts.

It doesn't have to be like this, we don't need to run shitty conservative Dems that billionaires like, because then we won't need to spend a billion on ads that don't even change anyone's minds.

We ran a Dem candidate that wants a border wall, doesn't want universal healthcare, and is pro-genocide...

Because that's what the billionaires wanted. And because we listed to donors over voters, we lost an election

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Got a serious question re genocide angle, how is trump well known for being anti-genocide?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago (10 children)

He's obviously not....

But if the entire existence of American politics hasn't been enough to show you that "lesser of two evils" is a losing strategy, I'm not sure how I'm gonna manage it.

Taking the Dem party to the right doesn't work, we just keep doing it because the DNC only cares about donations raised. They cater the party to billionaires and not voters.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago (2 children)

C'mon. Like any politician, she had to try and be electable if she were to accomplish anything. How can it be that this is not obvious?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (5 children)

she had to try and be electable if she were to accomplish anything. How can it be that this is not obvious?

And my point is that "electable" for a Dem candidate isn't what she was doing.

That would be matching her platform to what Dem voters wanted. Instead she based policy on "all voters" which includes the 40-50% who will never vote D under any circumstance. And in that process she lost votes from voters who will never vote R under any circumstances.

If she was trying to be electable, it just shows how important it is we clear house at the DNC and run a fair primary in 2028.

Because the same people have been running the show since 2016, and they're 2-1 against fucking trump.

They clearly aren't up to the task

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 6 days ago (12 children)

My view: yes, the Dems could have some better, but they still put up a legitimately good candidate. The GOP put up a pile of orange dog shit... And the dog shit won. How is it the Dems fault that more than half the population enjoys dog shit?

For the Dems to win, they need to run a fucking perfect campaign and the GOP doesn't. Why? Because media fragmentation and propaganda. The bulk of the population doesn't want to be informed. How is that the Dems fault? How did the Democratic party reach those voters that don't give a shit about truth?

This isn't a failure of the Democratic party, this is a failure of our society.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I think Harris and Walz were good candidates but their pitch was simply unappealing. The average american has been hurting bad the last 4 years. Harris' pitch was to maintain the degrading status-quo while trump promised to do SOMETHING. Whether or not that something is successful doesn't matter, people are sick of slowly getting crushed by costs of living.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago (16 children)

And so they chose to vote for the candidate who will only make COL worse. Pathetic.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

People struggle with differentiating causation and correlation. The past four years of inflation has wrecked peoples' pocketbooks and Harris spent a lot of her campaign refusing to acknowledge the unpopularity of the current administration she's serving in. Meanwhile, most people don't remember struggling as hard as they do now under Trump (myself included). I didn't vote for him BTW, but I'm not going to act like I don't understand how his pitch appealed to lots of people.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 days ago (6 children)

The left needs to stop making the perfect be the enemy of the good, or we will never get anywhere.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Is what we're doing right now getting anywhere?

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago

You can try to change tens of millions of potential voters minds so they vote for worse candidates than they want...

Or we can convince the double digit number of wealthy and connected people running the dnc that what they keep shoving down our throats isn't what voters want.

Which do you think is easier?

And as a bonus:

Which one results in a better America?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (10 children)

Good fucking luck with that. Too many people view their spotless moral record as being more important than outcomes or improving lives (/not actively making things worse).

Misanthropy is the only real outcome to this sort of behavior.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Dems are the greatest ally the GOP could ask for. Lost to Trump at his weakest, literally doing a Nazi rally. Being spineless doesn't get you wins. Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar won re-election by comfortable margins and the rest of the party are fighting for their lives in these states. Some Red States still voted to protect abortion rights and just choose not to vote for Harris.

Even if Jill Stein voters had picked Harris she still would have lost. There is no-one to blame but Harris and embracing people like Dick Cheney anrd The Blue No Matter who crowd themselves. You let Republicans unapologetically be themselves but your're whole brand of politics makes any group who works with you expendable and centers a chance for that 1-2 GOP voters joining. I hope it was worth it.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's past time everyone realized the people running the DNC just don't really care if a republican wins.

The only danger to their careers or quality of life is if a progressive wave takes over the party, because they won't keep pro-corporate people in leadership positions.

And they legally control the primary, so they never have to give up power.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 days ago (2 children)

There are a lot of "leftists" here on Lemmy that have been quite vocal about not caring about, or even preferring if Trump wins, but for way less consistent reasons.

I don't think that this is just a problem with Liberals. People keep using the office of president as a battleground for single issues, and end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater every time.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago

People keep using the office of president as a battleground for single issues,

Yeah, like when Obama ran on healthcare and flipped all those red states...

What "single issue" has any of the subsequent Dem candidates ran on besides "my name isn't trump"?

We can't just keep running these "moderate" candidates and keep acting surprised when Dem voters reject them. Biden barely pulled it off, and both Hillary and Kamala failed miserably.

Neoliberalism is not a valid strategy

Now, it's possible you meant single issue voters, but I just didn't think anyone would make that claim and try to blame 5-10 different groups with separate "single issues".

But who knows, a neoloberal just lost the presidential election, were about to see crazy level of mental gymnastics about how the party needs to move even further right.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Harris and embracing people like Dick Cheney

I knew it was over at that point. Whoever suggested that was a good idea for Harris that late in the campaign definitely has a MAGA hat in their closet.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I knew it was bad at the debate, where Trump even called her out for adopting his polices like the border wall and stuff. But the Dick Cheney thing was crazy because not only was he rejected by Liberals in the past. But he is still one of the most hated War Criminals of all time. He isn't going to sway over GOP people when you're active in genocide. It just makes you look like the type of people he likes.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Seriously? People making the choice to have Trump because she had Cheney supporting her, that is some funny math...people need to stop demanding a perfect candidate and start thinkinh about who do you want to be your opponent for the next four years.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Tbh, if she went all progressive, we would have been in here dating she needed to reach across the aisle. It's hard to be both and I'm not sure it's just the dnc to blame here, misogyny, ignorance and racism is hardly their fault,she the dnc has a role here, but...

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I disagree. If weve learned anything from the past two elections, it should be that there is no "middle aisle" to appeal to anymore. It makes no sense to go "mild" when the people really sitting home on Nov. 5th are the "wild" ones who feel like you aren't progressive enough.

Case-in-point being Trump's own campaign which did exactly that and is now looking like it won the popular vote by a higher margin than Biden won in 2020, too.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Its cos they are scared of what will happen if bernie where to win the primary

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (5 children)

The electorate swung solidly right, giving Trump the popular vote. Much as I'd like a more left-wing administration in the US, the evidence does not support the theory that a left leaning campaign would have helped. The US apparently wants an authoritarian government, and it got it.

This is not just the US either - globally we are shifting rapidly to authoritarian regimes. In my own UK where the center left (at best) Labour won the election, but only because the right wing parties were split by FPTP. The Tories elected a far right leader last week and got derided for it, but for them, it's absolutely the right move, and the next election will likely deliver a far right Tory or Tory/Reform coalition. For reference, Labour got less votes than the previous election that they lost in a land slide.

Same where I currently live, Germany, and my fiancé's France.

Dark times are ahead. Prepare for the worst.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago (6 children)

I don't know if sentiment swung or if Dems just didn't show up.

Biden had over 80 million votes in '20. Trump had like 74. Trump got less total votes this year than in '20. Only problem was like 15 million Dems didn't show up.

If there is one thing you can count on from a Democrat "voter", it's for them to not actually vote.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago

Fuck no, the republicans shouldn’t even be close. The fact that they're tolerating Nazis and other similar views is why they felt comfortable voting for Trump. I will NEVER forgive them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

They both have their corporate masters. It's just RedPubs run a pro corporate ticket and Democrats have a platform that is perceived as anti corporate. RedPubs get into the office and do exactly what they promised, Democrats get into the office and have to pretend to not bite the hand that feeds too hard (more of a gentle lick).

This is why the Democrats strategy is to lose. They are essentially paid to lose. Corporatism is what is getting in the way of democracy.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago

On top of that, dems have done a load of jack shit in power, even with a majority for half of the last term. Most of the policies Biden promised never came to fruition. Just sitting back and slowly letting the people shrivel. Advertising themselves as "maintaining the status-quo" isn't appealing for the average voter. As a Harris voter, I say that dem voters have an apathy problem.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (5 children)

I don't think it's exactly a matter of appealing to progressives, but an inherent difficulty in trying to appeal to a wide variety of people with a wide variety of interests. You end up having to make vague promises in order not to offend anyone, which comes across as being boring or disingenuous, like you are only saying stuff in order to get elected and not because you actually belive in it. Conservatives can have much simpler and more straightforward messaging because their base is much more homogeneous.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago

I disagree. Championing progressive policies in most instances actually appeals universally to a majority of the electorate.

I'm not suggesting they'd be able to follow through because I think a significant number of Democrat representatives can't stomach actually progressive policies... but I think they'd win more elections.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago (3 children)

2024 lack of primary - this one I blame on Biden. Either he insisted to have the right to run because "this is a tradition, that incumbents run for second term" and/or the party held that view as well.

Every time Dems got owned by Repubs was due to this reliance on tradition

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