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i know vitamin c basically neutralizes adhd meds but lemonade good (nw-adhd.com)

submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

42 comments fedilink hide all child comments

https://nw-adhd.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ADHD-Medication-Information-Sheet

tumblr user mwg-7:

i know vitamin c basically neutralizes adhd meds but lemonade good

tumblr user mwg-7:

Transcript

[three users express surprise]

Wait for real

Wait really???

vitamin c does WHAT?

Transcript:

Food restrictions: All of the first line medications for the treatment of ADHD are moderately strong bases (pH of 12-13). If they are present in the small bowel at the same time as a weak organic acid (citric acid or ascorbic acid/Vitamin C) the medication forms an insoluble salt and can not be absorbed into the body. You may have swallowed your medication but, [following is underlined in red] if you washed it down with orange juice or a soda, none of the medication actually gets into your blood stream. Therefore, avoid the following foods for an hour before and after your dose. Once you feel the benefits of the medication, you may eat or drink anything you wish.

Transcript

[just the bold bits, there's a lot to type otherwise] FOODS TO AVOID WITHIN 1 HOUR BEFORE AND AFTER TAKING MEDICATIONS

1. Natural and artificial juices

2. Soft drinks

3. Poptarts, granola bars, Power Bars -- anything that comes in a foil packet, can sit on your shelf for months without going stale and be eaten without cooking must have high levels of preservatives such as citric acid.

5. Vitamin C

6. Oral suspension medications

yea lol

ADHD Medication information sheet

tumblr user brazenautomaton:

I have been struggling

For a long fucking time

with why my adderall was having such uneven effects and varying efficacy

and the weird pattern of what made it work and not work and if it was building up in my system or not

and fucking nobody told me I shouldn’t drink a glass of Kool-Aid to take the pills with

or eat fucking Pop-Tarts or Life cereal

this is the most useful information I have ever received from tubr and it seems to be confirmed by several other places upon searching

so this actually should be spread like wildfire like actually

tumblr user firebirdscratches:

Me reading this realizing tunglr dawt kom gave me more information about my medication than MYDOCTORRRRRSSSSSS MYYYYYYYY FUCKENNNNN DOCTORSSSSS PLURAL MULTIPLE DOCTORSSSSSSSS

https://firebirdscratches.tumblr.com/post/635053584689545216/brazenautomaton-mwg-7-mwg-7-i-know-vitamin-c

top 42 comments

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

ProTip: if you drink the Panera Death Lemonade, the sheer amount of stimulants in it will make up the difference

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

They should lean in and make that the official name, then re-brand the entire store as Panthera, a metal theme'd bread shop.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

How does that explanation make any sense? Stomach acid has a pH between 1 and 3, similar to lemon juice, so if the acid-base reaction was the issue then medications wouldn't work in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

there are many chemically different acids

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

True, but the explanation still doesn't make sense. Either pH is relevant or it isn't.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

the text specifically notes that "weak organic acids" form the insoluble salts so it probably can't do that with stronger ones (like stomach acids)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

That's a fair point, I missed that.

I'm still skeptical, given the lack of sources and the lack of reliable information elsewhere. But you're absolutely right that the the weak/organic qualifiers may be important.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

I mean, its not really the vitamin c there bud. If you're drinking lemonade, its the citric acid where most of that acidity comes from (which is what the documents say). Same thing with soda really; carbonated water is acidic from carbonic acid (CO2 is acidic), but not really strong enough survive the stomach, which is why they only call out sodas with citric acid added.

They only really call out vitamin C as 'large doses', of 1000mg or more, a once-a-day pill only has 180mg vitamin C.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This is great to know.

For the first time ever I'm thankful that my partner is practically non-functional until the drugs kick in. She has an alarm set one hour early so she can gulp down her pill and go back to sleep.

Wakes her up right on time, every time!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Are you fucking kidding me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

The opposite also works. You can use tums before taking your Adderall to make it stronger

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Wait what? What? Vitamin C neutralizes meth?

WHY DON'T THEY TELL ME THESE THINGS?

[ACTIONABLE THREAT OF VIOLENCE TOWARDS US MEDICAL CARTELS]

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Not if you are snorting or smokng it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

I have been on this drug for 30 years, how am I only learning this now

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I take Strattera/atomoxetine with Vitamin C and it's still effective as long as I don't break the capsule

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If it's a time release that's why

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Atomoxetine is not time-release, it's just an eye irritant, they tell people not to break the capsule so they don't accidentally get the powder in their eyes (and some guides do suggest mixing the powder with food if swallowing the capsule itself is not an option).

Having to avoid vitamin C is mostly specific to amphetamines, that's why Vyvanse and Adderall's prescribing information mention that ascorbic acid makes it less effective, but Strattera's does not.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Oh thank god. Coke is still ok (Though I'm not sure how phosphoric acid is much better here)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Yeah, if you're doing coke instead of amphetamine you can drink lemonade with it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

berdly-smug Vyvanse users stay winning yet again

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

It will still wear off faster with more vit C in your system

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Wait, what are you saying? Isn't Vyvanse effectively the same drug?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Vyvanse/Elvanse (why the fuck they have different names in EU and US is just beyond me) are a so called prodrug called Lisdexamphetamine, a derivative of Dexamphetamine that has the aminoacid L-Lysine bound to it. This compound is inactive and has to be absorbed through the gastrointestinal system and then converted in your bloodstream into Dexamphetamine. This delays the peak level by about an hour and makes it more resistant to ph-levels and the influence of food.

Like the others wrote, it's probably not entirely inert to acidic environments but apparently much better than Adderall (raw Dexamphetamine) and Ritalin/Concerta (Methylphenidate).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Yes but that sheet OP linked says otherwise about the interaction (and at least tracks with my personal experience, given OJ is my favorite juice and I've literally swallowed vyvanse with it before) but I did do some research & found the Vyvanse monograph and it does mention

Acidifying and Alkalinizing Agents: Agents that alter urinary pH can alter blood levels of amphetamine. Acidifying agents decrease amphetamine blood levels, while alkalinizing agents increase amphetamine blood levels. Adjust VYVANSE dosage accordingly

I will eat a tablespoon of baking soda with my vyvanse tomorrow and report back with my findings.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Vyvanse instructions literally tell people to pour the capsule into orange juice if you have difficulties with swallowing pills (from memory).

Takeda is really not putting in any effort to help mitigate this lack of knowledge about Vyvanse here.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The best description I've heard is that with ADHD (and probably other neurodivergent conditions) you need to become your own pharmacist, psychiatrist and research specialist. There is so much information out there and the effects are so different for everyone. It's a constant balancing act of benefits, side effects, dosage, timing, food and choice of drug.

The pharma company "just" need to prove that there is a significant benefit above placebo for a certain fixed dosage under controlled conditions. We need to figure out how to use it in our normal daily ADHD riddled lives.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That is uncannily accurate.

My psychiatrist once remarked that he doesn't have any other patients who he can talk to on the level that he does with me after having a discussion about stuff (we were talking about my response to methylphenidate vs dexamphetamine and I compared the mechanisms of action of each and gave my best guess at what that indicated for my case). He treats me sorta like I'm a junior partner or I'm in residency - I come to him with my observations, symptoms, side effects, hypotheses and I provide the ideas for treatment while he brings the expertise, he deals with the more complicated stuff like interactions between meds, and he's the one to sign off on things or to veto them.

My case is kinda tricky because it's complex and I struggle with the side effects of stimulants so we've had to fumble around and do a lot of tweaking and balancing of side effects by using other meds and shit like that. I wish I could be the one to pop a Vyvanse and I'm golden but unfortunately that's just not how it is for me.

I basically got thrust into being my own psychiatrist and pharmacist and research specialist by circumstance and I drowned in the deep end until I started learning how to swim. I'm just grateful for being lucky enough to have the kind of brain that learns quickly and is good at heuristics and that kinda stuff.

(To be clear though, I don't fancy myself as some sort of expert. A first year psychiatry student would absolutely wipe the floor with me. I just happen to have a lot of problems and a lot of time on my hands lol.)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Happy to hear that it mirrors your experience. It's a weird ass condition for sure.

A first year psychiatry student would absolutely wipe the floor with me.

Doubt that. I've met plenty of them and knowledge about ADHD is not really as prominent as one might think for something that affects possibly 5% of people. All the science dealing with the psyche is still extremely young and underdeveloped. In most cases we have no idea what a drug does to a brain. Just look up Lithium. Stops people from killing themselves better than anything else and nobody knows why. Until recently we thought that people would just "grow out" of ADHD. The naming schemes and definitions change frequently and adoption varies wildly throught the world. It's a mess and they don't always know better.

I would trust a fellow affected person with 327 browser bookmarks about ADHD medication, diagnosis and therapy more than any neurotypical student at pretty much any point. And even some doctors.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Lithium is kinda wild.

There's at least two population studies that have been done which I know of that looked at places that had elevated levels of lithium in their local water supply. Obviously this is nowhere near the dosage of lithium that, say, a bipolar person might be on because lithium has a really narrow therapeutic window (i.e. to get lithium to a level where it's considered effective as established in psychiatry [at least according to the orthodoxy] is just slightly below the doses that become toxic.)

So anyway, two studies on populations who are essentially microdosing lithium. The results? Lower rates of suicide that which are statistically significant.

Makes you wonder if they should be adding a little bit of lithium in with the fluoride, doesn't it? Lol

Lithium is one of those drugs that has some really neat effects and I think it's overlooked for treatment-resistant depression because it's well known as a mood stabilizer and the first-line treatment for bipolar so it gets a bit pidgeonholed because of that fact. Sometimes I wish that prescribing doctors would try going off the beaten path a little bit with the meds they try on their trickier cases instead of just playing SSRI roulette over and over again.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The more you know. I have a cold so took a bunch of vitamin C but also vyvanse.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Don't wanna be annoying, but vitamin C literally does nothing for a cold. It's a myth long disproven. It just makes your pee slightly more expensive.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

lol at least I like the flavour?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Didn't know it changed the flavour as well...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

It's metabolized into dextroamphetamine after absorption in the lower GI tract, hence no interaction potential there. In theory it's susceptible to the vitamin c megadose issue thru altering urine pH.

Edit 3: that said idk how much vit c youd have to take to significantly affect blood amphetamine levels via the urinary mechanism

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I know chugging orange juice can help getting speed out of your system from experience as a speed freak. This was street knowledge for a while now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

that's cool when medical literature and street knowledge agree, IMO

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

If you're gonna do hard drugs you're gonna pick up medical knowledge cause otherwise you die.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Is this a good place to ask where/how I should self-medicate? (big concentration issues, doctors don't think adult adhd is real)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

most ADHD meds are schedule 2 narcotics, you may be better off finding better doctors. Maybe look for a local ADHD support group and see if anyone there knows of doctors that take it seriously?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

not american, but I can try. Psychologists basically hard no-ed them

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

EU use tor + reddit to find a directory, if outside of the EU and US good luck lol

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Some people unknowingly self medicate with caffeine (it was teenage me I'm some people). Not sure how healthy that is in the long run though. I've also been told flaxseed/fish oil can help to mitigate some ADHD symptoms but haven't tried it myself.