New trolley problem:
You are a worker at wef, you have access to anarchist cookbook
Do you [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] or [redacted] [redacted] [redacted]
this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024
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Some time ago I heard that the anarchist cookbook is not recommended and one should use CIA instructions to manufacture improvised explosives etc.
To quote Crimethinc, the anarchist cookbook is "not composed or released by anarchists, not derived from anarchist practice, not intended to promote freedom and autonomy or challenge repressive power – and was barely a cookbook, as most of the recipes in it are notoriously unreliable"
The anarchist cookbook contains a recipe for "bannanadine" a fictional drug derived from banana peels which as far as I know only exists as a prank for extremely gullible highschool students. This can give you some insight into the quality of recipes included
No comment on that last part but the Anarchists Cookbook is fully of many dubious recipes for drugs that would not really do anything other than probably be unhealthy for you, as well as other plans for other devices that simply do not actually work.
Some of the stuff in there would work, but its mostly of the usefulness of a highschool prank or annoying general mischief maker.
I call to my loved ones on the trolley that this is the time to use the emergency brake which is already there in case of the much more likely scenario of someone getting caught in the doors. Then, once the trolley has come to a stop with everyone safe I start lodging complaints with the department of transportation over the insane number of safety violations that led to this.
Clearly both trolley drivers' dead man's switches have failed, as has the electronic system that is supposed to detect that, as well as the signal system that registers every track switch. Also, the manual oversight of public transportation has failed catastrophically, either not noticing that something weird is going on or choosing to not shut down the trolleys despite noticing it. No one is supposed to be able to switch trolleys headed in opposite directions unto the same track in the first place, and certainly not anyone with access to an unsupervised manual switch. The design of that junction is insane and illegal.
They're just workshopping ideas for the next Saw movie.
Oh wait they did this in The Dark Knight.
A trolly is heading down the tracks towards a philosopher. Do you pull the lever to redirect it?
Only if the other line has more than one philosopher on it
analytic or continental?
Imagining a sci fi book where the last remnants of humanity are forced to solve trolley problems by an AI.
"I have no mouth but I must scream" by Harlan Ellison is about an AI that's kept a small group of humans alive indefinitely to torture them.
No trolley problems exactly, but people do make painful choices in the story.
That's what I was thinking of, but it's millions of people and they're all whittling their own numbers down via being forced to participate in increasingly outlandish trolley variations.
ooh, and what if it was simulating their consciousnesses and torturing them endlessly for previously failing to help bring about its existence?
That's just capitalism
Wasn't that a black mirror episode too?
I don't know a whole lot about moral philosophy, but isn't the only moral thing to do here not to pull the lever? From a Kantian perspective, pulling the lever can only be ethical if everyone pulling the lever would also be ethical, but that leads to the worst outcome. From a utilitarian perspective, the lives of your loved ones are no more valuable the the strangers' in the middle, so you would maximize utility by preventint the most deaths. From a cynical perspective, self interested rational actors are likely to decide to pull the lever, so you'd stand to lose more from pulling the lever and most certainly achieving the worst case scenario, than you'd gain from the off chance that the other party made the same calculation and decided against taking the risk. From a natural law perspective either choice can be acceptable so long as the intention behind the action is not to kill any person, and the deaths fall into double effect. So maybe there you could justify pulling the lever.
I dunno, I kinda agree with this person
Philosophy should be banned.
What if I jump onto the tracks and die with my family member?
Well looking at the diagram, the trolleys have both passed the switch points already so I guess all you can do is watch.
There's no tracks to move them over, the lever was never even going to do anything to begin with.
We need to shut these thought experiments down till we figure out what the hell is going on
The ultimate philosophy thought experiment:
You are locked in a cave since birth, in the cave a trolley is heading towadr a person chained to the rails, if you do nothing the person will die but the door of the cave will open and you'll be able to live, if you use the lever the person won't die but every cells in his body will be replaced 1 by 1 by an exact copy until the person maybe become a different person or maybe not.
Everyone in favor of tying this guy to the tracks in order to appease the trolley God say “aye”.
Basically the kind of rail system I'd expect America to build.
For the love of God won't somebody do something to improve railway safety? We need to stop these trolleys from causing problems all the time.
This would be more interesting without the three strangers.
If both of you do nothing, two people die. If both of you pull, all die.
Best case one person pulls, saving all their loved ones. The other person loses one.
What do?
As it's written in the OP pulling the lever IMO is always unconscionable as you'll kill three others AND risk killing 6 more.
In the OG prisoners dilemma, the best result was when both people choose the selfless act, the second best overall was if only one person did, but that was worse for the selfless one, and the worst option overall was if both people acted selfishly, but it was better for the person who would have acted selflessly.
Something like:
- both one year of prison if no one talks.
- if one person talks, they get no years and the other guy gets 3
- if both talk, both get 2 years of prison.
So here it should be worst for you if you don't pull the lever but the other person does, but the best (least people die) scenario is if neither person pulls the lever and allows one loved one to die each. The incentive structure should be set up that no matter what your opponent does, acting selfishly will mean less of your loved ones die.
Maybe if you pull and the other person doesn't, their trolley also somehow kills its occupants? And it's two people per trolley and one person per track.
I wish I could dig up the video snippet where “amoral” philosopher Hans-Georg Moeller destroys the trolley problem: https://www.youtube.com/@carefreewandering/videos
Hopefully you can. Thinking about it now, it reminds me of one of those topics that every redditor™ who thought they were a genius talked to death 10 years ago.
I know it’s buried in one of his videos, but haven’t found it. The gist is that trolley problems are perfectly spherical frictionless cows in a vacuum. They are metaphysical, platonic ideals of dilemmas that never actually occur in the real world. They’re divorced from the uncountably large number of specifics of any real-life situation.
Thought experiments are only useful if they're actually plausible hypotheticals, otherwise it's just a circle jerk.
Schrodinger's Prisoner's Trolley Problem
There is a random chance that your and your adversary's switch are flipped because of the decay of 2 atoms of uranium. Does free will exist?
University of Virginia in Charlottesville's Prisoner's Trolley Exception: People put into an undecorated white room would rather pull the lever than be bored
Remove the part about loved ones and put more people on the default track than the diverted track. More interesting that way
Then the optimal thing to do is to just coordinate with the other person and have one person pull the lever and one person not pull the lever. The point of the prisoner's dillema is that it's always "better" to "betray" the other person, but it's going to be worse for everyone if everyone acts in a self interested manner.
Isn't it better to coordinate with the other person in prisoner's dilemma too? I guess it needs the sides to be personally invested in the outcome for them to not do that and that's why the it says loved ones, but then that on its own is also a dilemma that overpowers the two other and ends up feeling less like a hard choice and more like a joker scheme. Idk how to fix it tbh
Yeah it is basically a joker scheme.
Another way to look at it is like a device that you and I sit on opposite sides of.
If I put in a coin, you get three coins. If you put in a coin, I get three coins.
Putting in a coin strictly hurts the actor putting the coin in. Playing it "optimally", there's no reason to ever put in a coin. Even though we could easily both walk away two coins richer, if we are "purely rational, self interested actors", we'll both walk away with nothing.
Technically, this scenario is flawed because "betraying" the other person makes the scenario worse for everyone if the other person also "betrays". A true prisoner's dilemma is supposed to be pretty clear cut "always right to betray", meanwhile in this a selfish actor would have reason not to pull the lever as to avoid losing the people on their trolley.
what if it was trolleylemma 40,000 and the lever is this guy:
and you have to beat him up to get him to switch the tracks, and also if not enough people die in this tragedy the hive-city won't have enough corpse starch to make enough ration bricks this cycle. but also if the trains are disrupted then the industrial output of the sector will drop below acceptable levels and trigger a purge by the Adeptus Arbites (who are like an army of judge dredds but with cybernetic killdogs)
Well, seems like you can just let the trains get disrupted and you’ll have more than enough corpse starch 
The Big Difficulty Prisoners Probalo
I don't pull the lever and flip off the cruel god that has trapped my loved ones on an ephemeral trolley for his or her amusement.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
brb tweeting this to Jeff Probst
"Know your loved one" challenge, but there's a trapdoor over sharks at the end.
