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Netanyahu aims to trap west into war across Middle East, warns Iranian diplomat
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 17 Apr 2024
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Alright cool Iran, you see the potential danger. So how about you don't escalate shit yourselves?
Sending a message "We can overwhelm your batteries of 100,000 dollar missiles with 1000 dollar drones if we want to." is a de-esclatory action; it shows that escalating would be bad for Israel, without requiring a response.
Edit: According to an Israeli general, the Israeli missiles cost a total of ~1 billion. IDK if this includes the missiles launched by the US.
Most of that 1 billion is on the American taxpayer. This is why you don't have universal health care. You need to spend billions, so Israeli military bases don't suffer from the consequences of attacking an Iranian embassy.
The US government has promised to continue this line of spending.
You think a billion dollars is the reason who don’t universal health care? Even if we cut all military spending we would have enough to pay for 2 months of universal care. People who say this don’t understand what health cost or that we are only spending 3% of our GDP on the military.
We don't have to defund the military, our current health spending easily covers healthcare needs, we just need to fix it.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416416/single-payer-systems-likely-save-money-us-analysis-finds
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/30/medicare-for-all-cost-health-care-wages/
https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/
Our military spending is what was brought up. I never argued against a tax paid system.
I don't like how Iran treats its population, and especially its women. I don't like that Iran is helping Russia invade Ukraine. Iran arming Houthi rebels screwing up global trade is annoying.
As someone from the USA, I say none of that is a good enough justification for going to war with Iran. Even apart from the inevitable tragic loss of civilian life of Iranians, its not about having or not having the military might. We spent untold billions trying to make Afghanistan viable. I'm not interested in another repeat of that.
Also fighting in Iran would be a fucking nightmare Afghanistan but bigger basically. Hell the only reason that Islam was able to spread there is cause the Persian empire and Rome veat the living shit out of eachother and even then it took nearly a thousand years for the last major Zoroastrian regions to convert.
We should all remember that the Iranian government is not the same thing as the Iranian people, before going to war.
Unfortunately a lot of people actually hate Muslims so that argument isn't going to work like you intended.
Maybe true, but also, it's up to each of us individually to fight prejudice within ourselves. And either way, it's worth saying, even if it ends up not being effective.
If we use the excuse of just allowing our hate to do what it wants, by evolving down to our base animalistic selves, then the center will not hold.
Do you think any place whose gov't America has gone to war with since WWII is better for it?
America doesn't go to war with a gov't, our gov't goes to war with the people. This is why they have insane civilian casualties, but fail to accomplish strategic objectives.
I guarantee no woman or gay person in Iran wants to be liberated by a B-52.
America (and most countries) don't go to war to help out that country's populace. They do so to achieve geopolitical goals. Any outcome positive or negative to the populace of that country is usually superfluous to the primary geopolitical goals.
This is true. The Iranian people are wonderful, and are victims of a conservative government. Iran is an example of what unchecked conservative governing looks like.
So, you're wrong, there isn't even enough interest to go to war for Ukraine, a fight that is arguably more just. Nobody is "foaming at the mouth" to go back to the middle east, except for the types that are generally foaming at the mouth anyway.
But worse, you're generalizing, which makes you wrong by default.
Sounds like you're incapable of defending your position with any rational discussion, so you dismiss the possibility out of hand. How transparent.
FTFY. The islamic revolution was 1979
That's not how I would read that. That would make me want to destroy the facilities the weapons came from
This is not a defense of Israel's choices, this is a hypothetical response to an enemy making clear an engagement pattern is not in my favor. Find a new engagement.
Bombing American factories would be a hell of an escalation.
I get you're trying to gotcha me, but you proved my point. If Iran had the means to go after American weapons production facilities, that certainly would be another engagement pattern.
They don't really have the means to do so, so it's irrelevant.
I never suggested Iran's course of action wrt Israel was nonsensical, in the context of retaliation to Israel's embassy bombing (which was despicable)
Edit what we are discussing here is now Israel's next response to Iran, in light of them not being able to afford to shoot down tons of Iranian drones.
What has happened has happened, and we have no signal that iran and Israel are going to leave the extremism behind, and start a big happy family.
Israel will be seeking a new vector of retaliation, and they can't just sit back and try to shoot down drones.
I get you probably want to respond that they should just cease all aggression and the drones would stop. I agree but that's not what's happening.
Likewise I agree that the us should absolutely stop supplying / supporting Israel, but that also isn't what's happening.
Don't both sides this shit, Iran has been exceedingly level headed in the face of multiple acts of war, making only token or equal responses after having their ships stolen, a civilian airliner shot down, the guy who beat ISIS assassinated while on a diplomatic mission, their IAEA compliant nuclear program attacked, sanctions, violations of treaties, etc.
Lol, as I said,
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/18787945
Iran is a authoritarian theocracy, seeking Israel's destruction. That's all I'm implying.
Israel is commiting genocide. I am,.and have never apologized for them.
Israel is a authoritarian theocracy, seeking Iran's destruction.
Yet only one of these parties is actively killing the others top generals.
Let's be clear here, they both would love to do so.
So yeah, they are "both sides" on that count.
They are both authoritarian theocracies too.
One is conducting genocide.
Anyway, you.dont need to defend Iran or denounce Israel. We can agree both are terrible, but one is actively worse right now.
The point was about chained escalation, and the actions Israel might take now, given the whole drone situation. I make zero comment on the rationality of how they got here.
There is no chained escalation. Israel started this by bombing their embassy and killing a top General. A blatant act of war.
Iran's response is showing extreme restraint and the only death toll seems to be a single Palestinian girl that got hit by debris from an interception. Which is very unfortunate but clearly not intentional.
Israel is the only party on the escalation ladder here. What Iran did was the opposite.
There's how we got here, which I acknowledged is majority Israels fault, and there's what happens right next.
Israel will make a move, and we were discussing what that will be.
Folks here are hung up on "Israel bad!" Which we both are saying. Folks here are incapable of thinking hypothetically about the future.
That future guaranteed includes a response to the drone attack.
Well the problem here is pretending that if Iran did not retaliate then israel would stop. As we can see in the Lebensraum expansion israel is currently committing in the West Bank, israel never stops if people don't fight back.
The escalation ladder is a one man show called israel. Even if Iran did nothing back this time israel would still escalate. Israel would start bombing more consulates and assassinate more Iranian top Generals.
Ah yes, responding to an attack with a bigger counterattack is deescalatory, of course.
The mental gymnastics are strong with this one.
Responding to an unprovoked bombing of an embassy with a demonstration that you can hit military targets, and you could have hit them much harder is infact deescalatory.
Escalatory would be bombing Israeli embassys and other non-military targets.
You're wasting your time I suspect. If you had to explain your very simple point a second time I suspect they are falling on deaf ears.