So it’s okay for a Palestinian-American citizen to not vote for Biden due to moral reservations over what Biden’s signing off on in Gaza, but a white citizen doing the same in solidarity with the Palestinian-Americans, and Palestinians generally, is bad? This says to me, he doesn’t actually think it’s acceptable for Palestinian-Americans to not vote for Biden, but won’t outright say it because he knows it’ll undermine lib virtue signaling.
this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2024
127 points (99.2% liked)
chapotraphouse
13468 readers
808 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank
Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here
Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
It's just noble savage racism. The Palestinians can't be convinced to abandon their strange, oriental sense of dignity, so efforts to garner support for the imperialist war machine are best spent on wypipo.
Liberal deployment of IDpol.
Also some right wing, liberal mixture of nationalism, racism, Islamophobia and classism or anti-socialism.
Nationalism as in "why you would ever show solidarity with a foreign people for any other reason than familial relations or monetary gain? You should only care about America!"
Racism, I mean, come on.
Islamophobia he comes off as a Zionist or at minimum a Zionist defender which is definitely Islamophobic. Also disregards non-Arab Muslims in the US and worldwide who also show solidarity with Palestine for religious reasons.
Classist or anti-socialist because of the nationalistic viewpoint basically. "You are in the labor aristocracy and should show solidarity with your fellows here and in aligned nations, not with the oppressed in other nations." This theme runs through most US and I guess western politicians generally. They won't use those words explicitly, but the meaning is always pretty clear. Also just a condescending tone in the wording.
"Wow. You guys are sooooooo dumb! Of course Bibi wants Cheeto man to win! You stupid leftists are giving him what he wants!" meanwhile Biden fully sanctions the genocide Outside of direct US military intervention or nuke deployment, I don't really how Trump could possibly worse on this issue and many others like US involvement in Ukraine.
There’s a definite bit of implicit Thatcherism going on. There is no alternative to the brutal, settler colonial war machine, so take the option that puts a respectable face on said machine.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Arguably, voting the way your Palestinian-American friend tells you to is the best thing to do. It both admits they know more about the situation than you, and shows that you value their opinion. This is doubly true for people who can't find Palestine on a map.
"Lesser evil"? It takes a liberal-level of a chutzpah to describe Biden that way as he empowers, enables, and arms the Israelis as they openly commit genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Biden’s bloodlust when it comes to arming and covering for Israel that it’s genuinely hard to conceive of a greater evil
Its fucking sickening to see someone describe what Biden is doing as the "lesser evil" option. There is no lesser evil. Palestinians are being indiscriminately killed, maimed, and ethnically cleansed in Gaza right now. Am I supposed to believe that somehow the Biden admin actually cares about ending the genocide with their occasional throw away soundbites?
Looking forward to libs acting like they ever cared for Palestinians when Trump gets elected and then chiding people who didn't vote by saying that the genocide wouldn't be happen if we had voted for Biden. I'll support any white "slactivist" not voting for Biden over anyone who acts like they care about Palestinians voting for Biden who is actively killing them right now.
"But Trump would empower, enable, and arm the genocide even worse. At least Biden sends them a get well soon card and a fruit basket after he bombs them."
"And - look - you might not like it but studies have shown how important the get well soon card and a fruit basket are to the healing process."
---
I can't resist using "look". It's such a lib verbal tic. Take cover. It's a clue that some serious bullshit is incoming.
Voters using issues they've become aware of within the last year to make decisions at the polls is un-american, it's not fair!
If we can just get everyone to deactivate the brain's ability to retain memories formed after 2019, we can finally get back to normal
There's another layer of really disgusting chauvinism in this I can't totally articulate. Dude clearly views Palestinians/probably any Arab American as being motivated by emotion, but the rational white people can rise above and observe the facts and logic of the situation. Infantilizing Palestinians but dressing it up in this "I hear you" language, but still genuinely believing they're stupid for being against being genocided.
It rings of the white man's burden wrapped in "woke" language.
"Genocide is only bad if it's happening to me", and other things libs genuinely believe
Ask this guy how he felt about Ukraine before February 2022, or if he knew where it was.
Also what the fuck is this reasoning? Palestinians can recognize Biden is genocidal but white people are being sanctimonious when saying the same thing? He's outright acknowledging the lesser evil is genocide. Is Trump supposed to be double genocide?
load more comments
(1 replies)
— "You know...I'm not going to tell a Palestinian voter to vote for Biden. I'm really not. I won't."
— But...
— "What I am gonna do is tell a white voter who couldn't find Gaza on a map 6 months ago to miss me with their work-from-home-slacktivism and choose the lesser evil."
[Easy: Success] — Of course. Only the white votes matter to her.
You are so good at disco posting. Highly appreciate it
I can't, i mean i can, but i can't, genocide is not the lesser evil. It's the worst evil. Once your guy is doing genocide, he's at the bottom of cocytus with a pick ax, digging down, complaining about the heat. "The other guy would do more genocide!" How do you get to that point, as a person? What is happening in the cranial vault at that point?
What is this anti-solidarity, anti-intersectional nonsense?
Liberalism, what else
If you want to torture a lib - just say you'll debate Biden/dem policies and actions but if and only if they don't mention Trump. They often can't or won't do it. They can't think for more than ~60 seconds without their brain screaming but Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump...
He has a serious case of Trump derangement syndrome. He'll ignore all thoughtful tweets that mention genocide and ethnic cleansing. Time and again to his hobby horse that the Israelis like Trump more so Biden is better.
If I thought that Biden is doing nothing to restrain the Netanyahu government, I'd agree with you. But, the Netanyahu government complains about Biden... AND I PROMISE YOU THEY WOULD BE HAPPIER WITH TRUMP... so... I think you're wrong that they're functionally the same.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I’m not voting for someone who wants genocide.
Netanyahu wants Trump to be elected, so to counter that, Biden is staking out the position of sending Israel weapons and taking its side on the international stage? And that will make Netanyahu less interested in Trump being elected? Or it will increase Biden's domestic support because his base is overwhelmingly in favor of a ceasefire?
Does Twitter make you stupid or is it just where stupid people go?
The short version of lib pundit brain: Trump is the worst thing in the world. So even if you don't like Biden - ya gotta be pro-Biden and then vote for him. Those are the rules!
---
Mystal avoids discussing the genocide and ethnic cleansing happening right now and he wants to pretend that dem base desire for a ceasefire can be pushed away because Orange Man Bad. Also - these topics make Biden look bad. Mystal makes the case that Biden doing an unspecified "something" to reign in Israel. Netanyahu wants Trump to be president again. Therefore - if you want the US to do more of this unspecified "something" to reign in Israel - you must be pro-Biden.
It's crazy but that's what he's arguing. My related comment in this thread - https://hexbear.net/comment/4622637
load more comments
(1 replies)
Classic always-works strategy of democrats running further to the right to outflank republicans. Famously worked out well.
Truman nuking Japan, instigating Korean War, bringing the world to first brink of nuclear war by allowing his generals to run wild in the pacific threatening China constantly. Domestically cracking down on post-war unions which had taken a beating as to not undermine the WWII production efforts. Not continuing FDRs popular and successful New Deal type reforms and just going fully into anti-communist fervor.
Kennedy staking out the anti-communist position against Nixon of all people. Outflanking republicans so hard that it led to botched attack on Cuba and nuclear missile crisis.
LBJ with Vietnam
Carter introducing the country to neoliberal austerity bullshit and basically telling Americans to "be realistic" with visions of possible futures.
Bill Clinton being basically Reagan's 4th and 5th terms just cranking the neoliberalism dial up
Got bored in there but whatever. Point is liberals/democrats are cucks and also just stupid. Unless their goal is to continue failed policies and continue doing the Republican agenda, which I mean... even if not their goal it happened anyway. Is still happening like look at that Gestapo ass border bill proposed by a fucking democrat President. Insane, dogshit country.
load more comments
(1 replies)
The argument that Biden is doing nothing is patently false. He is actively supporting Israel in their campaign.
Saying he is doing "nothing" is sort of apologia for liberals, so they can say "well trump would do the same but worse". No. They'll just do the exact same thing and support Israel to the tune of billions and billions of dollars.
Not going to get into the Biden is a lesser evil thing for transfolks and women, I dont see him doing anything particularly helpful, but this is the one area id argue he is actually doing "nothing". If marginalized people in these groups tell me to vote, I probably will, but yeah
Trump could not realisticly do worse in this conflict if he tried
load more comments
(5 replies)
I'm so tired of these people claiming that "nobody knew about Israel-Palestine until a month ago". I was pissed about anti-BDS laws in high school ffs. Even the most apolitical zoomer alive can remember at least one Israeli atrocity from the past 20 years. Even the strongest Islamophobes who want to personally kill everyone in Gaza themselves know about the USS Liberty.
MSNBC brain
Literally the white man's burden 🤡
At least with Trump liberals will oppose genocide, even if it's in the form of "work-from-home slacktivism"
Surely they wouldn't be full of shit and support Trump's Gaza policy, righhht? Obviously, they've made it clear they'll do EVERYTHING in their power to oppose Trump and guarantee his "threat to democracy" is thwarted completely, it's not like they hate Trump only for superficial reasons
"Trump will be worse"
It's been 5 months since the Al-Aqsa operation. There is 1.4 million refugees in Rafah, the purported "safe zone" as described by Israel. There is 6 months until the election. There won't be a Palestine if Biden keeps this up. The election is irrelevant, as a genocide cannot get worse if it has been successful. There is no lesser of two evils. It's just evil.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I'm not about to deny that there has been a lot of complacency about what Israel is doing to Palestine over the years. This is absolutely the case.
What's absurd is the proposition that if you've only just recently developed an understanding of a situation that has been outrageous for the best part of a century now, therefore your position on the matter is illegitimate somehow. It's not your fault that you live in an imperial bubble that's brimming with distractions, PR doublespeak, and curated concerns.
I have often referred to Israel's actions as being a slow-burning genocide or a genocide in slow motion. Obviously that's before the recent events but still. The point being that Israel is very aware that as long as they take a slow and steady approach which is punctuated by relatively brief periods of intensification and speeding up, the world will largely be indifferent because there's always a more urgent concern and that way what they're doing can mostly fly under the radar.
Blaming people for the very self-conscious and strategic approach to ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and genocide enacted by Israel is just blame-shifting that serves the interests of Israel and sides with the oppressor over the oppressed.
Our votescold here wouldn't be singing the same tune if he encountered people who were diehard Republican voters up until 6 months ago when they got slightly more politically savvy. I wonder why that would be?
I just keep thinking about Sam Seder being like, “I would vote for the guy who wanted to build less concentration camps”. It’s just not a hypothetical anymore.
Sam Seder is a deeply unserious person
“I believe that only white people can understand the “”””nuances”””” of democrats so therefore I won’t even bother to appeal to the browns”
He’s just saying what liberals are too scared to say. They know they’re mostly alone on this topic. Regardless of how most POC will vote, they’re also largely supportive of Palestine and liberals know they’ll get their shit rocked if they play the “if you don’t for Biden you ain’t black” a second time.
Honestly even the "I'm not going to tell a Palestinian voter to vote for Biden" is more than I would have expected. It at least recognizes that Biden has acted against Palestinians in such a way that Palestinian Americans can't vote for him in good conscience. But yeah, the rest is shit.
How can these lib idiots not see that Biden's support for Netanyahu's genocide campaign is exactly what is hurting him? It's like they can't even concieve of Biden doing anything consequential to not directly support it.
This is happening now. Real-time genocide deniers doing some handwaving that makes the possibility of future Trump worse than the real-time support of genocide.
They do see it. It’s why he won’t tell Palestinians to vote for Biden because he understands how absurd and self defeating it is. It’s the equivalent of telling Jews to vote for von Hindenburg
Yeah, Trump would probably circumvent Congress to sell arms to Gaza, he would call people protesting Israel's actions in Gaza plants or paid opposition, and he would shoot down every UN ceasefire resolution
Oh wait
But Trump would be rude about it and even make jokes poking fun at the UN.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I 100% believe 
is, unironically, sincerely the only way humanity will have a future.
view more: next ›