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submitted 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

I had an idea that would allow people to buy their own homes that they are currently renting:

  1. Every home gets appraised to determine what it would sell for. This is done by the county and is used for property taxes too.
  2. Every renter is allowed to buy a percentage of their primary residence from the owner. The owner has no choice in this. It's a requirement for being able to rent a property. Edit: Since people are confused about this, the renter is not required to buy anything. They have an option to buy.
  3. Renters can pay as little as $100 extra per month and the county puts their percentage ownership on the deed. If the home is sold, the renter can't be kicked out involuntarily. If they do leave, they get the percentage of home value they own.

Pros:

  • This would avoid the issue of high interest rates hurting primary homeownership.
  • This would blunt the impact of corporate landlords having a monopoly where they refuse to sell. They are forced to sell at a fair price.
  • This would create a simple decision between owning their home and spending money on luxuries or eating out.

Cons:

  • This would hurt small landlords who would have their property bought out from under them. This is actually a good thing because the benefits of rising property values are now shared.
  • The implementation is hard. This is actually a good thing because bad landlords would sell property they didn't want to manage, lowering prices for renters who want to buy.
  • It would cost the county money to hire appraisers. But this could be paid for by increased property taxes due to better appraisals.
  • Property taxes would go up for landlords. But this would be good, as it encourages them to sell the property. This appraisal process and increased property taxes wouldn't affect people who just lived in their home without charging rent.
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[-] [email protected] 27 points 4 weeks ago

Don't take this as a criticism, but do you own a home?

How would changing property values be accounted for, and how often is the appraisal done, and who pays for that? Can a landlord sell his rentals to someone else while they are rentals? If no, why not? What incentive does a landlord have to keep a property nice and safe if x% is no longer theirs? If the rent-to-owner decides they want to move or not buy the house, what happens to the money? Is any given to the landlord? Why can't the landlord increase rent to drive out a tenant? If a new sewer line needs to be run, and it's $10k, how is the cost split? How are property taxes dealt with if the unit is owned by multiple parties? If a homeowner owns 51% of the property and someone is injured on the property, who's insurance pays?

I get there is a lot to dislike about slumlord type landlords, but property and home ownership isn't like buying a toaster. There are a ton of laws and rules and responsibilities that clearly defined parties still have court cases over. There is financial risk in property ownership, and your proposal seems to be having private citizens, even if "rich" by your definition, and it is the government dictating private use of their property.

There are positive aspects to renting, which you don't seem to consider. I tried to sell my house for over a year, but foreclosures had driven down property prices so much for a time, I literally couldn't afford to give my house away for below market value and still have any money left to put on a new house. If I was a renter, I could just say I'm done here and go off and do whatever. If something breaks, there's someone who is supposed to fix it, no cost or effort to you. You don't need to worry about taxes and setting aside money for maintenance or hire contractors.

I want everyone to have a home, and I hate scumbugs and corporate ownership of residential property, but many of these people do serve important purposes, and many people would not have a place to live if property owners didn't rent out access to those properties.

Again, I'm not a landlord because of many of these things, but I do own property and wouldn't like something like this. It is a very complicated issue and this just comes off as someone who's never had to fight the local zoning board, deal with a utility screwing around with you, or having messed up property records having the government trying to make you pay taxes you don't owe say property owners have it made. It took me 8 years, 3 title insurance companies, and a judge to get my property records corrected after my divorce.

Expanding construction of affordable housing people would want to live in and expanding housing subsidies and just in general providing adequate social safety nets will get people in homes. Giving people with no means to maintain a home is not a benefit, it's just another huge thing that brings a pile of never-ending expenses.

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[-] [email protected] 15 points 4 weeks ago

It would actually be easier to just set massive taxes for anyone that owns more than 2 houses. I don't begrudge anyone who owns a house and a vacation house but fuck anyone who just owns rental properties, and if you can afford to buy a third house then you can afford to pay a ton more in taxes to keep it. The more houses you own the higher the taxes go, just make it untenable for people to own rental properties and the rest sorts itself out.

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[-] [email protected] 15 points 4 weeks ago

The renter pays extra and receives part ownership. So the owner receives this extra money and... just has to keep the money on hand in case the renter leaves years down the road?

The whole thing is a legal nightmare. Owners would just sell. And who would buy? Corporate landlords who have lawyers who can cut through all this confusion.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago

Owners wouldn't sell, at least I wouldn't...but you wouldn't find he house on the market for rent that's for damn sure. It would be an airbnb or some other rented whatever in a heartbeat.

I'm all for cheap renting, last tenant was 1220 when the average here is about 2800 for the same thing. I own outright so it's really not a loss for me. I'd rather people live in the house, then on the lawn.

With that, basically having a tenant automatically go on my deed? Yeah...no. never.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah no. Make it illegal for companies to own residential properties. Sure they can build em and sell em within a given time frame after building or renovating them, but within 5 years tops individuals should own the property.

Progressive tax rates the more properties you rent out.

Renting is one of the main causes of permanent poverty. I don't give a flying fuck about your "investment opportunities". You're getting cash while others are losing money.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 4 weeks ago

I think it would be more useful to dramatically increase taxes on unoccupied or AirBnB properties. Increase penalties on slumlord behavior. Similar things to gently (or not so gently) discourage people from hoarding residential real estate.

Otherwise, if someone was renting my house and they wanted to buy it at $100/month, it would probably take more than 800 years to buy (if I could afford to get it into shape to maximize the appraisal).

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[-] [email protected] 9 points 4 weeks ago

Paying such a small percentage would mean it takes a lifetime to be able to afford the house. If we take the median home value($360,681), $100 a month would take 300 years to own the house. That doesn't even account for inflation and an increase in home value. You would just be pissing away money that could be better used otherwise. If you increased the payments, you would be better off saving or investing to buy a home than trying to buy the one you were renting.

How about we just ban companies from owning rental properties or homes longer than one year and nobody can rent out more than one home.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 4 weeks ago

Here's what you're forgetting: as a percent owner in the home you are entitled to a portion of the rent and a portion of the sale price. As you buy more, your rent goes down. You are saving money.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 4 weeks ago

The more you explain your idea, the worse an idea it becomes. The rent progressively lowering means there will be a point where the mortgage is higher than the rent payments. The only way that system makes any sort of sense is if the government owns the house and rents it to you with payments based on a yearly appraised value. That would be a pretty sweet deal that would have high demand, which would require a lottery or que that would go about as well as section 8 vouchers(horrible).

You want a roundabout system where there is no incentive to rent out property, just ban renting property.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 4 weeks ago

You might not know this, but a mortgage being higher than the rent isn't abnormal. In the past, when interest rates were 8% and rents were lower, you lost money on a rental property for the first few years. Property is not a license to print money. It's an investment with costs and payoffs.

The property owner can pay off the mortgage early with the money. Or they can buy another place to rent out. Or diversify into other kinds of investments. No one is banned from anything.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

Under your system, people are banned from normal rental agreements though

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

Why not get a loan and buy the house as narmal?

[-] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago

My only point here would be I'd switch from actual ownership to more of an "option" ownership option. Similar to stock options, every time you pay rent you get more of the "options". When a sale event happens, you can exercise your options and have a chance to buy the property there. Or, if they want to exercise now they can and they'd own shares of the building there. Once it tips to 50% then the shareholders own it.

Every year you receive more options, you are under no obligation to exercise them. However, every year you rent you receive more options. If you leave and you did exercise your options you get the value you put in back, but if you didn't the options go back into the pool.

I think this is similar to co-ops in large cities, where there is a contract that the owners can start owning the building themselves over time.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 weeks ago

How would that actually work? Co-ops work just like a corporation, you buy shares one apartment at a time. There are no options.

I feel like the record keeping in your idea and mine would be the hardest part. Basically every home that is rented out would have to be a mini corporation with shares available for purchase.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 4 weeks ago

It was just a thought, I don't have all the details worked out. But essentially yes, just like a co-op except since in a co-op you own, these would be options, where they unlock every year on renewal, giving you the option to own. There would have to be a whole new concept for it, a normalized thing similar to a corporation but specific to land ownership, because yes pretty much any rental property would be one, every building

[-] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago

What happens to people who rent out an apartment in the house they are living in? This is not uncommon, where I live. Grandma lives in a small separate apartment in the house, she dies, the apartment is rented out. Sometimes a child moves in later or the parents move in and a child takes over the house.
If these people risk losing a part of the house by letting someone else rent it, my guess is that they would just stop renting it in order to be able to leave the whole house to their children. Which would leave even less homes on the renting market and a bigger share to big corporations.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 4 weeks ago

Good point. I think this process would only happen when the owner doesn't live primarily in the home. I.e. financial owners.

The real issue is vacation or short-term rentals. There would have to be minimum time limits like 3 or 6 months to avoid having a million tiny owners.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago

This is a plan called "Rent to Own". It's been a thing for decades now.

https://www.investopedia.com/updates/rent-to-own-homes/

[-] [email protected] 4 points 4 weeks ago

Right, but I think making it mandatory is the big question here.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

If we are going to start pitching ideas that will never happen in my lifetime, then I also suggest mandatory stock options for all employees of a company and first right to purchase at market value if the company ever sells, in which a union could buy out the company to turn it into a co-op model.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago

OK, then I choose not to rent. You can go buy a house or rent or live on the street.

Now what?

[-] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

Now what indeed? You're still paying all the maintenance fees but now you're not generating regular income, and you're at the mercy of your government's empty home laws. Where I am I believe that's currently just paying double taxes, but it's also entirely possible for government to pass more regulations if there's a lot of unused housing they need.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

I think an easier solution would be to expand section 8. The government should have tons of housing units built, and then families can "pay them off" with section 8 funding. Right now section 8 money just goes to slumlords. Instead that money could go to the people who actually need it. This would increase housing supply, so prices would come back down, plus allow people to build equity and ownership in their home allowing them to start raising themselves out of poverty.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

Well in Germany there is the "Vorkaufsrecht" for the renter.

If I would sell my flat, the renter would have the option to buy it for the negotiated price. Not any imaginary price. There has to be a notarized sales contract which triggers the "Vorkaufsrecht".

The renter has the option to buy the house / flat at the established market price.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago

Unless you have strong rent control, expect proportionate increase in rent for any tenant who exercises that option.

Oh, you have $100/mo extra to spend burdening my equity? Your rent just went up by $200.

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 4 weeks ago

Not everyone who rents a house to live in wants to buy a house. Not everyone who rents a house to other people wants to sell a house.

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

If you reduce the ability for owners to make self-optimal choices with their property, then the property will be less valuable to them.

This means that in order for property to be as attractive an investment, they will have to raise rents.

Whenever you coerce people in a market, you make the market less efficient, which hurts everybody.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

You are assuming that market rent is not already as high as demand allows. That's not true. It is. That's the definition of market rent.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Market rent is as high as the market allows. Demand is not the only factor in pricing.

When you make something less valuable for investors to provide to the market, this reduces supply. Reducing supply while keeping demand constant results in higher prices.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Supply of homes is not dynamic like a factory, it can't respond quickly to prices. Investors will grumble about whatever they want, but the alternative is a time consuming and expensive sale.

Even then those homes don't disappear . If they are removed from the rental market they will just end up sold to the very group of people who were renting them, thus reducing demand. Rents would not move much, although there will probably be more real estate sales than usual as the rental market sheds the lazier real estate investors.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

theres a current, common thing called something like buying/selling "on contract" that provides for a lot of the methods youve outlined

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this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2024
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