chapotraphouse

I think the article that people were posting about had a stance of "you shouldn't have a concept of an inherent/essential stratification of sexual 'value' amongst men [or anyone], because that is the same idea that fuels incels".

Most people who are sexually frustrated should be reachable with assertions like "no one is universally unfuckable", "attractiveness is subjective and heavily based on personality", "there's a flip side of people who won't consider you, which is people you wouldn't consider", "there is no one who is objectively better to date, only people who are subjectively better for you" and "there is no perfect match for you, everyone in this world and it's okay to be short of perfect". If they don't accept any of this, then they have chosen to be horrible on the inside and should be pilloried as such.

It's also worth saying that the internet makes this worse. If your reference point is the people around you that you interact with, it's more likely that you'll adapt to them. If your reference point is this abstract idea of what relational success looks like, based on images that you do not interact with, backed up by a bunch of stories about other people's relational failures or non-starters, you're more likely to develop a self-hating nihilistic approach to your own sexuality.

I feel "sorry" for the people who were sucked into that stuff young, and never had healthy relationships with women. It's less a "oh, poor them" and more "wow, what a lot of wasted potential. You could've been a decent human being and now look at you."

At the risk of summoning UlyssesT to kick my ass for using this comparison, I view incels and fascists like zombies. I have sympathy for the children they once were and the people they could have been, but once the change happens it's just a waste of feeling, and you can only think about who they want to hurt.

I think a lot of people hear incel and think “socially awkward young man” and relate to them. Those people need to realize that incel is more than just the sob story narrative that incels paint about the world. Their ideological is fundamentally reactionary and misogynistic.

I refuse to believe there was a struggle session about feeling sorry for incels on this website

Incels are shit and must report for reeducation.

However, that's not to say dating and relationships arent incredibly dystopian these days under late capital. The fact that many ways to meet partners are monetized and gamefied is still something we can and should critique.

But that's (importantly) not saying incels are right in any way shape or form, since they feel entitled to a partner, rather than frustrated at material conditions (something that would be justifiable). Ironically, in their nostalgia for trad life they become idealists par excellence, missing out on all the material conditions that also make the "trad" life impossible.

is there a pithy or meme style difference between an incel and someone who got shot down a few times? I feel like some of the more rancid incel ideology is obfuscated and smuggled in with more relatable and healthy if not fun stories about getting rebuffed. delineating between 'incel' and 'someone who is sad that she said no' would be helpful for providing an offramp away from inceldom to men in the pipeline

Fuck incels. They are some of the lowest dregs of human society. These fucking morons never consider for a second that maybe, JUST MAYBE, their actions are what cause them to be undesirable for other people. Be it their personality, their hygiene, or their actions. But no, instead it's my fault for being a woman. Go to hell. I hope you die lonely.

Yeah seriously

I got dumped a month ago and I don't even blame my ex, let alone all women

Not her fault, things just didn't work out but that's fine and I wish her well

Once it became a movement, incel ideology became like a cancer and grew like one but just like cancer there are causes

On some level I theorize that incels came into existence as a sort of waste byproduct of patriarchy and late stage capitalism but similar shit could be said about fascists and we damn well shouldn't be sympathetic to them either

Being nice to entitled men just invites more at-risk dudes to start thinking that way. It needs to be socially unacceptable. We need to be like Gandalf banishing Wormtongue from Theoden’s hall. At the first hint of entitlement, bully the shit out of them. Raise the barrier of entry. Like how demonizing communism means there are fewer communists.

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

I vehemently disagree. Do not fuck incels until they make something of themselves and see you as a human being and an equal. Also the existence of free will is absolutely not proven philosophically or scientifically. No further objections, the rest is obviously true.