this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2023
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

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https://raddle.me/wiki/leftunity

Some choice quotes straight from the US state department

The USSR alone was responsible for the de-Tatarization of Crimea, the genocide of the Ingrian Finns, the ethnic cleansing of Poles, the mass gulaging and pogroms of Greeks, the deportation of the Karachays, the deportation of the Kalmyks, the deportation of the Chechens and Ingush (Aardakh), the deportation of the Balkars, the deportation of Azerbaijanis from Armenia, the deportation of the Meskhetian Turks, the deportations of the Chinese and Koreans, the execution and deportation of Latvians, the expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe and the Holodomor famine that largely happened due to the USSR's confiscation and export of all the grain stores in central and eastern Ukraine, and preventing people from acquiring more food by banning free movement. Then there's communist Czechoslovakia's Romani sterilizations, the Cambodian genocide, Bulgaria's "revival process", Vietnam's Montagnard persecution, the Isaaq genocide in Somalia, the Hmong genocide in Laos, the Gukurahundi massacres in Zimbabwe and the mass starvation of anywhere between 15 and 55 million people that happened in China during Mao's "Great Leap Forward".

LMAO

Marx really made his career shamelessly ripping off Proudhon's earlier work point by point, but piling on a thick authority sludge before serving it up to the world as if he were presenting something new and not just an authoritarian perversion of Proudhon's ideas. Once Marx found fame with his plagiarism, he then decried Proudhon as being detestable; a bad economist, a bad philosopher, whose critiques were worthless and unevolved.

MARX STOLE COMMUNISM FROM ANARCHISTS!!! LOL

identifying as a leftist is a statement to the world that you support nationalism, states, borders, a monopoly on violence, being ruled by kings or presidents or central committees. Anarchists aren't left or right wing, we're anarchists. We reject the power machinations of both wings of government. We reject all authority.

LITERALLY A LIBERTARIAN

If the concept of community is authority-based e.g. steeped in majoritarianism, then what good is it to anarchists? Since at least 99.9% of all existing self-identifying communities and even theoretical proposals for communities are beholden to states, councils, committees, voter bodies and other forms of rulership, it's safe to say the community ideal in itself is just another vessel of authority. If all organized communities on the planet can be clearly demonstrated to be authority-based, then it's a safe bet that the entire concept of community is authority-forming... By simply looking at every example in the world today, you can bet with absolute certainty that any forced grouping of people around the community ideal is going to lead everyone involved through another abusive and torturous adventure in archy.

Anti...COMMUNITY??? Can't make this shit up omg.

The few remaining free people in the world e.g. the Hadza in east Africa ("Tanzania") don't live in anything resembling what we know as a community. They're nomadic, have no leaders, no gods, no rules, no crops, no property, no marriage, no parents (Hadza children have full autonomy and essentially raise themselves), don't extract anything from the land other than foraged food and are quick to remove themselves from the presence of anyone who tries to rule them.

PLEASE LET ME GO MONKE, I HATE HUMANS SO MUCH

The original National Bolsheviks in both Russia and Germany had the same idea, believing socialism needed more blatant nationalism and racism than it already had under Lenin and Stalin. In the 1980s, the concept of third positionism was taken up by the far-right, fascist political party National Front in the United Kingdom. Today there has been a resurgence in third positionist fascism under various labels, from modern nazbols to "national anarchism" to neo-Eurasianism to (I argue) Dengism. It's completely unsurprising that an ideology founded by virulent racist and colonialist paternalists like Marx and Engels would find support with so many racist nationalists.

Fucker is trying to cancel Marx using literal nazi propaganda ROFL

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)

What is it with liberals thinking ideas are possessions? Back in the 2016 election I was told sneeringly more than once that Sanders didn't even invent medicare for all, ackshully it was some other senator. Who cares where Marx or Sanders got their ideas? This isn't a science fair, it's not a homework assignment. Fucking liberals

[–] [email protected] 60 points 8 months ago

Imagine being an anarchist and believing in intellectual property lmao

[–] [email protected] 48 points 8 months ago

What no dialectics does to a mfer.

Every single idea/concept/knowledge/etc is the result of a historic process, where people build up on the work of people before them and so on.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 8 months ago

medicare for all is also just a shitty middle ground measure

just do a national health service

[–] [email protected] 31 points 8 months ago

Private ownership brainworms

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This isn't a science fair,

Imagine going up to kids at a science fair and giving them Fs for not doing totally independent novel research.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

I think they mean one kid plagiarizing the project of another

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

idea theft is bad because it's property

[–] [email protected] 48 points 8 months ago (1 children)

no parents (Hadza children have full autonomy and essentially raise themselves)

It is all about bedtimes

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago

dunno, seeing as they made so many references to libertarianism it might be something else... libertarian-approaching

[–] [email protected] 41 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The anti-community rhetoric screams that they’ve conflated actual community (which the Hadza most certainly have) with the reactionary use of “community” as a veil for insular xenophobia.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 8 months ago (25 children)

If the concept of community is authority-based e.g. steeped in majoritarianism, then what good is it to anarchists? Since at least 99.9% of all existing self-identifying communities and even theoretical proposals for communities are beholden to states, councils, committees, voter bodies and other forms of rulership, it's safe to say the community ideal in itself is just another vessel of authority. If all organized communities on the planet can be clearly demonstrated to be authority-based, then it's a safe bet that the entire concept of community is authority-forming... By simply looking at every example in the world today, you can bet with absolute certainty that any forced grouping of people around the community ideal is going to lead everyone involved through another abusive and torturous adventure in archy.

Idiot has failed to understand that anarchism is not anti-authority.

This is what happens when you misinterpret anarchism and turn yourself into a vulgar anti-authoritarian instead of an anarchist. They anti-anarchy in their obsession with anti-authoritarianism. They hate authority so much they want ultra hyper atomisation and ultra individualism to the extent of utter obliteration of all community, social or otherwise. Why? Because you literally can't have basic human interactions without some sort of expected etiquette, expected norms that people conform to, and expected behaviours that people tell you off for if you break them. It's how human social relations work. The only way to escape all authority is to not live in groups and the desire this person has to live like that suggests they are a deeply misanthropic person.

The few remaining free people in the world e.g. the Hadza in east Africa ("Tanzania") don't live in anything resembling what we know as a community. They're nomadic, have no leaders, no gods, no rules, no crops, no property, no marriage, no parents (Hadza children have full autonomy and essentially raise themselves), don't extract anything from the land other than foraged food and are quick to remove themselves from the presence of anyone who tries to rule them.

This is really really not accurate. The social hierarchy among the hadza is age based, like most tribal arrangements, with elders being respected as teachers.

Anyway how exactly is Ziq expecting to get to this kind of lifestyle with the population we currently have other than through mass starvation and/or murder through intentionally breaking down the structures that currently exist for the current population.

the expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe

Oh yes. The nazis. Cool. Glad I wasted my time before rereading and catching this fascist supporting shit.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (3 children)

The only way to escape all authority is to not live in groups and the desire this person has to live like that suggests they are a deeply misanthropic person.

Taking a peek at the thread someone linked in another comment further supports your conclusion:

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago

I really do feel sorry for this person. They're stuck in that edgy 14 year old "everyone hates me" mentality. Friendless, alone, pretending that they hate people because they're so lacking in social skills that they can't ever connect with anyone.

I imagine though, if I met them in real life I would be filled with less "pity" and more of the "violent rage" they describe (though I think they're just misidentifying contempt as rage there).

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago

Purging chuds, strongly encouraging underdeveloped people to do better, and upholding the advanced as exemplary is the same thing as ritual sacrifice and keeping "the rank and file" in line.

Man, if you think that banning fuckwits amounts to the ritualistic killing of people then you need to log off. The only ritualistic killing going on in social media spaces is when ziq ritualistically "killed" their administrator privileges for gross violations of trust before promptly resuming their position as administrator on raddle.

Also note that anarchists enforce community norms in effectively the same way - if you violate anti-oppressive values then you either get "ritually sacrificed" or the community enforces accountability processes to get people to sort their shit out. This isn't evidence of the deep-seated malicious nature of tankies, this is just how communities—all communites—operate and balance the competing demands of negative and positive liberties.

In that same comment thread ziq is playing victim by heavily implying that their life is being threatened by words and inference. Grow the fuck up, please.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago

These ultra-individualist types amuse me because they're more or less tacitly stating to the world that they're cowards. They exalt the individual over the collective, so the idea that anyone would care about someone or something more than themselves to the point of sacrificing their life for that someone or something is unfathomable. But someone who would never risk their life for the sake of anything other than themselves is nothing more than a self-interested coward. And self-interested cowards aren't exactly known for being mentally and emotionally resilient who won't completely cave under the slightest of pressure.

And this isn't even getting to the sock puppets, an absolutely pathetic but predictable behavior of a emotionally stunted person.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Ah, I'm very familiar with the return to monke crowd I think.

I used to listen to a pretty good podcast, Ashes Ashes (https://ashesashes.org/). Episodes would cover some aspect of modern life and, while citing quality sources, detail how that aspect of modern life is unsustainable, dependent on fragile supply chaings, and/or unable to survive climate change. It's a good pod, 107 episodes, worth listening to, but pretty fucking grim at times.

Anyway, they had a discord server and I hung out a lot there while leaving reddit & twitter but before finding chapo.chat. It was full of terminally online "anarchists" and one occaisional visitor who would always stir shit up & definitely belongs here (Enoch, where are you?).

"Return to monke" memes were really popular there.

UlyssesT actually REALLY reminds me of the most active user on that server, in style not in content. The guy was really into Max Stirner and Egoism. He was an egoist anarchist. very weird. The only reason he wasn't anprim was because he needed insulin and knew that primitivism would hurt him, personally.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago

Thank Marx you found hexbear before they indoctrinated you into their death cult <3

[–] [email protected] 34 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The proud libertarian who can't read, gets aggressive with mirrors, and fucks family members.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago

Claims to be an egoist, but functions entirely on id

[–] [email protected] 34 points 8 months ago (1 children)

the expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe

weird-bolshevik

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Muh poor innocent nazis lol

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I must assume they mean the ethnic Germans of the Volga region, which Lenin established and Stalin dissolved on the advice of Beria and Molotov, relocating many of its inhabitants eastward.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 8 months ago

ziq deserves no attention

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Ziq has a lot to say about genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Let's hear what they have to say about ethnic Germans in the Ukraine, especially Mennonites, and how they were treated by anarchists.

Let's hear what they have to say about the genocidal actions against Catholics in Catalonia.

Let's hear what they have to say about the Spanish anarchists who supported the Spanish colonial holdings in Morocco and the genocidal actions that were necessary to suppress Moroccan uprisings that threatened the colonial domination?

What's that? They're all out of breath from denouncing what the tankies did in history that they didn't manage to get around to denouncing what anarchists did in history? Goodness gracious!

There's three ways that this always proceeds, in my experience:

  • Open genocide denialism

  • Rules-lawyering genocide

  • "Actually I denounce all of those examples of genocide carried out by anarchists (it's just that I don't ever talk about it, strangely enough) but you are making an unfair generalisation by holding me personally accountable for the actions of historical anarchism which I do not support"-style hypocritical anarchistier-than-thou nuance-cuck nonsense

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Hodza children have full autonomy

this literally all is just "Ugh, Mom!!! I don't want to go to bed at 10:30!!! YOU'RE THE WORST!!!"

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago

Vietnam's Montagnard persecution

I'm sure the person using the archaic French colonial label for them cares very much about the persecution of the đồng bào.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Don't the Hazda people that still live exclusively through foraging and hunting have a life expectancy in the mid 30s, and an infant mortality rate above 20 percent? And don't the majority of Hazda people live with some forms of modern lifestyle? Last I read, of the 1300 Hazda people in Tanzania, only 300-400 are exclusively hunter gatherers.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago

Of course, ecofascists want everyone to die in their 30s. They literally write fanfic where 99% of humanity dies and the survivors live in caves lol.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago

monkeys aren't sinophobic

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I really truly believe reducing a political sect to "they just silly naive kids who believe in a utopia" is very short sighted. It's done to us communist as well literally all of the time so why would you think it's a smart idea to reduce some other sect to the same label?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

It's a stretch calling primitivism a utopia. They want to kill almost everyone so they can forage for berries where our cities used to be.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago

Why do NATO leftists have such a strong need to be labelled as leftists while being anything but? It's always them doing this shit and calling themselves Trotskyists or Anarchists while doing so. They aren't happy just being liberals. They have to be some kind of radical when the only thing radical they have going are some social justice issues that only put them to the left of mouth-breathing conservatives.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

We have Chomsky at home.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sinophobe

God dammit I knew we shouldn't have sent him to the West to get sutras.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

I have stolen their meme.

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