Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip
okay but like (not particularly educated take inbound)
the biggest gripe we have with social democracy is that it's fundamentally just a more equitable distribution of plunder from the global south, but that criticism doesn't really hold up when you ARE the global south and it's your resources getting plundered by imperialists
The criticism of social democracy ultimately boils down to "you're not doing a juche-style degrowth to decouple from imperial satraps". Which is fine and perfectly arguable on its face. But it does lead you to breeze over the policies social democrats are most commonly championing - public sector professional services free at the point of consumption - that would, in fact, get you some of that juche-style degrowth you said you wanted.
Another big gripe is that social-democracy is just capitalism, and we are opposed to capitalism.
but that criticism doesn't really hold up when you ARE the global south and it's your resources getting plundered by imperialists
For the same reason, it doesn't work to materially improve conditions for the 3rd world. The only solution is revolutionary socialism.
When Bernie starts saying shit like this my opinion of him will change:
"You don't know how happy I am today. For the first time in the history of this country, we've managed to put a communist on the Supreme Court, a comrade of the quality of Flávio Dino"
Those south american socdems hit different.
Under no circumstances would any of our global north socdems say something overtly praising putting communists in positions of power. With perhaps the sole exception of Jeremy Corbyn who was quite obviously only a socdem of necessity, it's clearly not his actual ideology.
To be honest, I was shocked when he said that. Lula, and the Worker's Party as a whole, usually shy away from name-dropping Communism, let alone openly praising it.
Lula is usually worried with having support from the right-leaning Congress, and honestly, he needs that support to be allowed to do anything as president, and openly saying what he said is sure to get him a lot of criticism.
Still, it was a nice surprise to hear that.
When bolsonaro stans attacked the airport, Lula denounced the “Stalinists” alongside the reactionaries but then paused and corrected himself, saying “Wait, no. Not the stalinists” then continued denouncing the reactionaries lol
Under no circumstances would any of our global north socdems say something overtly praising putting communists in positions of power.
I think they do pop off, once or twice, before they get piled on by liberals and social fascists. Sanders was openly complimentary of Chavez's Venezuela, Ortega's Nicaragua, and Castro's Cuba a decade ago. Rashida Tlaib has been a vocal advocate for Palestinian resistance in Gaza as recently as a few weeks ago. You can find comparable statements from AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Cori Bush, particularly early on in their first campaigns and terms in office.
With perhaps the sole exception of Jeremy Corbyn who was quite obviously only a socdem of necessity, it's clearly not his actual ideology.
Corbyn is a great case study in how the national far-right media treats anyone even tacitly supportive of left wing governments and organizations. The British Press has made it some kind of contest to see how many times they can demand everyone in the Labour Party condemn Hamas, as a result of his Palestinian advocacy. Every third question in any given interview boils down to "Do you condemn?"
So there's a certain amount of attrition that occurs, as even the tangentially left-wing Congresscritters and Parliamentarians avoid these issues entirely because of the way the press hounds them in the most annoying way possible. Because national right-wing media narratives whip up constituencies into a confused and angry lather, and because left-wing media in this country is heavily curtailed and censored, it is difficult to have a coherent conversation about foreign policy that doesn't end with a bunch of liberals accusing a sitting Congresswoman of being the unibomber.
Is the nation imperialist?
If yes, social imperialists.
If no, social democrats.
Pretty damn simple.
Counterpoint 
honorary irish
Is there a list of the One Piece emojis? They keep surprising me and I love all of them
Nevermind, found the weeb section
there was a good reply by some smart lady about him on here, let me just find it....ah! Here we go:
the sole exception of Jeremy Corbyn who was quite obviously only a socdem of necessity, it's clearly not his actual ideology.
See? I said she was smart. 
Latin American socdems: “I denounce capitalism and the west’s condescension and imperialism. It is evil, exploitative, and the Marxists are right. The violent revolutionaries of the global south were right. We must engage in capitalism in the current state of the world to survive, but we can and must do better”
European socdems: We are LITERALLY the only real socialists. Every other attempt at socialism is a failure. Who produces our energy? Whose labor allows us our privileges and benefits? Who knows! Magic! The browns are being too uppity which could end our high standard of living, so we need to support the US to secure our existence. What do you mean the collapse of the USSR means we no longer have leverage over capitalists?
This is a simplification of course. But no European socdem has given me the impression he cares about anything except himself these days.
You are being way too kind to European succdems. These slimy bastards doesn't want leverage over capitalists, they want to serve the capitalists.
Which Latin American socdem besides Morales said something like that?
Social democracy in the imperial core, premised on global south super profits, is different from a country historically exploited by the imperial core doing social democracy by taking advantage of its own resources.
Just wanted to chime in and say how proud I am of all my comrades for understanding the essential difference between geopolitical dynamics in the global north and south.
It's more along the lines of how the United States won't even allow social democracy as a release valve
I think South America can have little a social democracy, as a treat
Exactly like look at how Latam social democracies are treated vs the Nordics. Its obvious theres a material difference.
social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism
Western leftist:goes on huge rant
Latin American leftist: DBZ is pretty cool
it’s depressing seeing supposed communists supporting the incompetent and corrupt capitalist demsoc governments of the world like the one in my country
You're seeing the opinions of the western left, and in our countries our movements have only just been rebounding after decades of very harsh repression and propaganda, so it'll take more time, struggle, and political development for people to see the difference between social democracy and revolutionary society. It is unfortunate, but for now, many will be captivated by the former.
yours is not the only one captivated. mine and many across latin america are so captivated we actually elect these people to power lol. it’s fine anyway since I selfishly want the government in iran to remain in power long enough to kill israel you can selfishly want the anti-american governments to stay in power to oppose your country. also honduras is a western country too lmao
you can selfishly want the anti-american governments to stay in power to oppose your country. also honduras is a western country too lmao
Yes this is exactly the point being made here. Its not even selfish. Its just how Lenininst antiimperalism works. Wanting American hegenomy to be hurt as an American is actually the opposite of selfish?
Also for the last line, yes its in the western hemisphere but its not part of the imperial core. Which is why we carefully use that language instead. The tem "western" is fairly useless for this reason.
demsoc governments of the world like the one in my country
Sorry but which country? I know of plenty of countries with self proclaimed social democratic governments but not really any "democratic socialist" governments
There is one official Democratic Socialist country; the Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka
And my country Portugal of course
Right constitutionally, same with India. But Sri Lanka literally has it in the name which is funny
Well, Lula did end up making Lulgags so maybe he's come around a little.
There's also a difference between social democracy and democratic socialism
Correct. Denying global imperialism another nation to pilfer is good.
I was gonna say I wish we would CW these particularly gnarly wojaks but I'd just click through every time anyhow 
Anyhow this did several points of mental damage to my psyche thanks
Lula isn't doing that great in his 3rd presidency. We are seeing the privatization of prisons, a zero déficit policy and a continuation of a cap on government spending that is fucked up and that he promised to get rid of, but didn't. There's talks of his party, PT, allying with PL (Bolsonaro's party) on some stuff, tho I haven't looked into it to much. And there's a real possibility of the military police becoming basically untouchable and having more power and autonomy than they did during the military dictatorship.
There's other stuff happening that is not related to him, but that is extremely important, like the recent illegal privatization of water in the state of São Paulo by it's facist governor that ended in comrades that were peacefully protesting being beaten and arrested.
Of course there is good too like the economic growth and the recent abolishment (don't know if it is the right word to use) of debt for the people that were housed by the government, but we are seeing the limits of social democracy right now.
This shit is both depressing and enraging. If only the Lula that spoke in the UN was the same Lula that is governing this country.
Don't put too much faith into social democracies just because it's on the global south, comrades.
Critical support for national liberation from Global North neocolonialism.
SocDems vs. DemSocs
Global North
Global South
Flipping my globe upside down to get the words to reverse.
What no world system theory does to a mf