This post kind of grosses me out, especially with the (probably incomplete but w/e) context I've gathered from comments on this post, and ESPECIALLY with how I've seen it happen before on this site (without the site learning from it either...). I don't mean that to insult you. While I understand it comes across as patronizing to say, I can't really blame anyone for internalizing probably the most common brainworm in the Anglosphere.

But ultimately I disagree with your point. I don't think personal responsibility... exists, actually. Even supposedly impulsive and random excessive purchases can usually be attributed to some unmet mental need or some sort of symptom of a common form of neurodivergency. Though, I don't want to focus on that too much, because I know it's a really controversial belief and I'd have to go into literally my entire worldview from scratch to explain how any of it makes sense to me - something I don't want to do and would make this discussion (and comment lol) even longer and more painful than it already is. I do have a different problem with allowing criticism of the actions of those asking for help, though.

I can't imagine being someone with a drug addiction, or who wants to numb their suffering by buying alcohol, or otherwise supposedly "pissing it all away" on luxuries anyone more rich and privileged would rarely if ever be judged for buying, even and especially here. Only to be met with disdain for daring to... ask for money with the hope of catching the eye of internet strangers with disposable income. Because buying these luxuries, despite being something others can afford, is seen as questionable merely because you are using the money others gave you (many of which would choose to buy said luxury in a heartbeat instead of giving you that money, and would not receive a single glance of judgement for it!)

Allowing people to criticize people for making the "wrong decisions" which leads to them being homeless (apparently, I think that's silly and if someone is making decisions that lead to that than there are other extenuating conditions, including sometimes mental ones, that lead to those decisions) is problematic for the same reason allowing people to "criticize Wokeism" or "just ask questions" about race is problematic. It isn't that actually asking questions about the sociological construct of race is inherently bad, or that *actually criticizing a community in a good-faith way is bad, but that the culture we exist in is so fraught with an inherently bad-faith and incorrect view of the subject that anyone who is trying to "just ask questions", trying to "speak their mind about the Woke", or trying to "just give advice to someone struggling" is vastly more likely than not

Do you think people are just born into this world homeless? I mean, some probably are, but a LOT of homeless people come from parents abandoning them after coming out, or running out of money due to (rent/addiction/other factor they can't control well if at all). Am I going to withhold money from someone for making the "wrong decision" of coming out to a family they thought was safe? Of fucking course not. And I'd ESPECIALLY not dissuade others from helping them- And that's the issue, the kind of "criticism" that people direct towards those asking for money (yes, even on a leftist forum. Plenty of people here, probably the majority, have just as many ableist and classist brainworms as the rest of the USS of Amerikkka, they're just rarer and more advanced varieties) does not actually help people asking for help change their actions. Changing your actions is FUCKING HARD, especially when you're talking about quitting an addiction or trying to figure out what the cheapest food is to buy, or where to sleep best without cops finding you and fucking ruining your life. People who are poor have to do way more shit to do and pay for way more shit than people who are rich have to (boots theory) and a poor person "pissing away" 4000 bucks so they can have the semblance of comfortable living is always going to be treated worse than a rich person who actually literally pisses away 4000 bucks in shitty overpriced beer because they pay for their large group of friends to go to a sports game and decide to pay for all the concessions, and that bias will hold true here, until either we bully everyone into not having that mindset (WHICH IT SEEMS VERY OBVIOUS TO ME IS THE POINT OF THE RULE) or the user base is no longer Amerikkkans.

If someone is suffering from being fucking poor, than the only kind of valid and not inherently harmful criticisms you can give would hardly ever register as criticism to most people, and would be closer to providing free information, like helping with finances by helping them figure out how they can spend less while still getting the same quality of life and things they care about, or giving tips about working out, or sharing cheaper recipes or ways to get drugs in safer and more reliable ways than they already are or giving them information about cheap addiction treatment you happen to have useful info about from the area. And these are all things, again, that would hardly register and hardly anyone would ever report, let alone ban (minus maybe the drugs thing so they don't get the website swatted, but you know what I mean).

So I see very little purpose to allow people to give unwanted criticism to those who are fucking starving, or getting threatened with arrest for being trans, or struggling with fucking drug addiction, because unless those people are afraid of free numbers and columns there's probably only a few situations where someone would take offense to something that isn't just motivated by the same ambient fucking classism everyone has everywhere and to be completely frank I don't think those exceedingly rare situations are worth the risk of allowing people to simultaneously shit on homeless people while hiding under a veneer of "civility", which the remanding or removal of this rule would cause.

If you think giving money to the person is a bad idea, than just don't do it, and everyone "responsible" will do the same thing as you.

And to be even more completely honest, this is a trend I see repeatedly and it is blatantly created by the discomfort of the privileged (like you or I probably are in comparison to many people on this comm who post) needing to have a constant stream of money to live, because they want the discomfort of seeing a struggling person to go away after they "buy" it with enough money. And I understand that impulse, because seeing people struggle sucks. But this is fundamentally a form of punching down; It's a response that blames the one struggling for your discomfort (and, no matter how reasonable it seems to blame them, no it fucking isn't), instead of the systems and people who put them and you in this fucked situation in the first place.

Unsolicited advice from Internet randos is probably the least effective form of "aid." Why would anyone consider or care what a stranger has to say?

Realistically, outside of money, people in a public anonymous forum could:

1. Pretend to be job references for people applying for jobs.

2. Help people pass certification exams or even do their homework.

That's pretty much it.

I personally think this comm should be more geared towards raising funds for any gofundmes, not just for people from this website. There's so many gofundmes from Palestinians, and it's kinda weird that we don't have a sticky about it. There's an entire website dedicated to vetting those gofundmes: https://gazafunds.com/. If you think they're all scams or whatever, there's a gofundme by the municipality of Gaza itself: https://gaza-city.ensany.com/campaign/6737

Yes, not all anonymous randos asking for money on a public anonymous forum actually need the money, which is why this comm should be geared towards gofundmes that can be vetted on some level. All those "uh aktually I don't want to give you money because you're a junkie who will blow the money on drugs" whiners can be redirected to donate to the Gazan gofundme instead.

Taking care of a persons needs is always priority #1, but at times, said person is unfit to handle money in a way that reliably alleviates those needs.

this has been on my mind a lot but I don't think there's really a good way to articulate my thoughts or a good solution for it, it's just hard for me to wrap my head around someone posting

spoiler because I'm not trying to call out a specific person but I mean, it's kind of a specific instance and might be recognized

about getting like literally two months' worth of my wages as a donation and then asking for more money a week later, like

I guess I feel a mix of jealousy, disbelief, and just like loss by proxy that this mana from heaven seemed to just disappear without benefit lasting even longer than a week

but i'm going to shut up about it because I'm not trying to be an asshole, it's just like, idk, really wack to me that that happened

Counterpoint: giving needy people money does not entitle you to anything in return. If you are going to be weird about it - don't give money. Miss everyone with the paternalistic nonsense.

Edit: and for the record I have given money to someone who was almost definitely scamming and I never mentioned it to anyone. Giving money anonymously is exactly what it says on the tin.

I've been able to help people get housing here for free before. Though not on this comm specifically, people DM me and I hook them up with people I know that have extra space.

For what it's worth the rule specifically says no unsolicited advice or critical comments in the mutual aid post.

You are welcome to make a separate post about it like this one while following the code of conduct as well as not pinging the person to harass them.

If you drop a few thousand bucks into a homeless addict's lap and expect them to snap their fingers and magically get all their shit together, you're as naive as a toddler. Of course a chunk of it is going to go towards vices and self-care. What were you expecting? "Ah yes, this has immediately solved all my problems, let me put down a security deposit on a condo and invest the remainder in my 401k."

Sending a stranger money on the Internet is very rarely going to solve anything other their immediate, base level needs. I'm not saying it isn't helpful (and it is in fact extremely cool), but expecting a shot of cash to be as transformative or revolutionary as a real life mutual aid network is magical thinking.

I don't know the context for this, but I think with the status quo of the internet being that everyone shits on homeless people, drug addicts, etc. I can understand wanting to remove comments that are being critical of the decisions someone has made that led to them asking for help here. There is a time and place for offering advice, and most of the time people here are not looking for it nor are they even in a position to hear it, and they are definitely not going to take much in from strangers. In healthcare settings it takes hours of building rapport to broach these topics, so unless you know the user well its pretty much pointless to be critical of someone unless you want to make them feel like shit. At best you could link people to resources that could help, or invest the hours to get to know them, then start trying to give advice.

I do think if this comm is going to be called mutual aid then there should be more than just posts requesting donations.... though it can't be as bad as the languagelearning comm not having stickied resources for learning languages

where we all pretend that personal responsibility doesn't exist

That's totally fair. Was considering blocking this group because it's stressful watching so many down on their luck people asking for money. It was putting me on [more of ] a doomer path in a sort of learned helplessness way.

The solution to any person you think is abusing this community is to point it out to a Hexbear admin or moderator. I assure you they are active, even on this comm, and have thought long and hard about the rules, they just do not make their presence known as much as they did historically on Hexbear. If they disagree, feel free to point it out in a post, but after the community consensus lands on no harm done? At that point is where the solution to said problem user being distasteful for you is to donate to something else and block the comm for a while. It is not your problem, nor does it become your problem because the few bucks you sent them didn't totally transform their life. It's also not your problem if others disagree and continue to help, it's all confined to this comm, no one who doesn't want to see this has to see it.

Here's my personal experience as a person who fortunately received money during crisis from comrades on this comm:

The first time was after I had to turn down a scab job offer while running out of money. I was on the verge of homelessness at that point, and could no longer afford my Buprenorphine prescription, which my life and ability to function on a daily basis depends on. That was my first post in c/mutual_aid. My Hexbear account is four years old. I was there during the first three days of the site's existence and the entirety of the lifeboat discord before that. All under this account, which admittedly gives me an unfair advantage, but that novelty wears off quickly.

I got 120 dollars within a day of posting, enough for a two month supply of Buprenorphine. Every single cent went to that. This was urgent for me, people with similar experiences donated money to me because they understand what this is like. They almost certainly looked over my post history, and that was enough for them to trust I'm not a scammer because Hexbear is still a small enough site that communities can form where most people recognize each other from their time spent browsing.

I don't believe anyone would say that was problematic given I followed all the rules of this comm. That includes keeping all mutual_aid posts and discussion in c/mutual_aid. Since we can either sort by local or sort by all and block this community, no one who wants to think about this stuff need know who's even using the comm for help because they wouldn't have to see the posts made in their feed.

Later on, I found I had my Buprenorphine all taken care of, but had no money for food that I could access. So I asked for $50 dollars for one to two weeks worth of groceries. By then my situation had started to stabilize and was on the up swing. I had luckily found a new job sooner than I had expected, but was flat broke and the first check was still weeks out. I just didn't have enough money for some basic self care and food, and that's the amount I thought would do me well for one to two weeks. I made a second post, but with less elaboration and detail on my situation, had a relaxed tone to show it wasn't urgent, and simply asked if anyone could help out. I only got twenty dollars, but there were more dire ongoing situations and spare money is finite. And that's also a fine outcome! They helped a comrade they related to with what money they could spare to that, it's no problem, it feels good to help people in hard situations. That was still very helpful!

What I'm getting at is that for anyone on this comm that donates, it is an informed decision made because they have money to spare and another person needs it more. You don't do this to change someone with money you expect to lose because no one is perfect. You already knew it wouldn't be enough to permanently change their situation, so how can you, a person who has never met them give criticism about their spending via this narrow look into their life? And for that same reason, why do you believe any of your criticism is applicable to their problems just because you sent them a few bucks and read a few of their posts? You ultimately still do not owe them anything, nor do they owe you anything. The relationship between aid giver and receiver is never transactional. You can't just toss people out of this community because you imposed on them some will to change their lives after sending them any amount of money discussed here.

On the other end of things, donating to someone on c/mutual_aid cannot be enabling as it is typically understood. The rules of this comm enforce a boundary in that no one can make or discuss these mutual aid requests outside of this comm. Which means there is a very easy means of setting boundaries preventing two people from forming toxic relationships involving donations and expectations of behavior. Just giving money to a grown adult known to have a drug problem cannot be considered enabling because regardless of their addiction, they need money to merely exist! If you stop giving them money, they do not necessarily stop using drugs, they find money elsewhere because they also need it to eat, find shelter, and take care of their other basic needs. Can your small donation make them quit their vices? No? Don't be surprised if they use some or all of it for their vices. Enabling requires the presence of the type of a relationship precluded by the way the rules are enforced on this comm.

None of this changes just because the dollar amount is in the low thousands. That was a single donation made by someone who clearly had money to spare. You can not know what any of that actually entailed, and you are projecting paranoia onto this comm as a result.

So ultimately I have to say:

personal responsibility