this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2024
131 points (92.8% liked)

chapotraphouse

13468 readers
808 users here now

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank

Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here

Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
 

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/ukraine-passes-language-law-irritating-president-elect-and-russia-idUSKCN1S110Y/

Literally the whole media switched spelling around this time.

iRaq and iRan are silly but the "Kyiv" stuff is different.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 17 points 14 hours ago

And just a few weeks before the very same people were still calling the country the Ukraine. It was hysterical to see the very same people be very serious and very respectful about ~~the~~ Ukraines culture and language

[–] [email protected] 27 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Iran should return to the good old times before the revolution when the country was still called Aynrand and literally every woman was wearing bikinis all day so I can oogle at them. It was objectively better back then.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago

Holy fuck it took me way too long to realize this was a bit

[–] [email protected] 30 points 17 hours ago

In the liberal mind, "Kiev vs Kyiv" is equal to "Beijing vs Peking" or "Myanmar vs Burma" or "Uluru vs Ayer's Rock"

[–] [email protected] 18 points 16 hours ago

Rare British win.

Also though, a lot of people seem unreasonably upset about English speakers pronouncing words differently to how they are in their native languages when that's just how accents work.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 18 hours ago

Iran away from my wife grillman

[–] [email protected] 10 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

People out here still pronounce karaoke as "carry-okey"

Just trying to figure out where that "ee" sound is coming from.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Sauna is not pronounced sawna rage-cry

[–] [email protected] 10 points 14 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

English speakers are naturally suspicious of the letter a - is it the a as in "snake", "apple", "father", "ball" or "many".

[–] [email protected] 4 points 14 hours ago

But like.....e?????? It sounds like some cracker tried to pronounce the word and didn't bother saying it right so they just called it that

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago

I pronounce it

"care-uh-oak" as Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ intended.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

When the media says or implies that Russian culture doesn't belong in Ukraine, don't take it as a statement of fact, take it as a statement of intent. They're priming people to accept ethnic cleansing.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 18 hours ago

But I thought Russia was committing genocide. CNN told me so and they never lie.

[–] [email protected] 77 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (3 children)

I still call it Kiev because all the TV people switching words on a dime freaked me out. It's real 1984 shit when the entire media class just decides for geopolitical reasons the geographic name for a place everyone was used to using isn't usable anymore.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

they can do this one instantly, but scores of media outlets either took forever or haven't even got Turkiye down yet

I still think a funny bit is just pretending to not accept the Cyrillic alphabet and calling it "Knib"

[–] [email protected] 29 points 21 hours ago (4 children)

"Turkiye" would be fine, but that is not the official English name, it's "Türkiye" which makes absolutely no sense. Maybe we should start referring to Japan as 日本 in English instead too /s

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 hours ago

Calling Japan 日本 in English but pronouncing it Rìběn

[–] [email protected] 11 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

No seriously it seems insane to officially change the English name and make a big stink about it but use a letter that isn’t in the English alphabet? Just skip the umlaut wtf are you doing

[–] [email protected] 8 points 13 hours ago

Not to mention it's nationalist BS driven by Erdogan as a popularity stunt

[–] [email protected] 7 points 15 hours ago

You can write Türkiye as Tuerkiye if you want to stick to 'pure' English. I mean, Latin.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 21 hours ago
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 51 points 22 hours ago

layoff-stare unprovoked layoff-stare full layoff-stare scale layoff-stare invasion

[–] [email protected] 33 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

The grocery stores in my country all made a big thing about renaming their "Chicken Kievs" to "Chicken Kyevs" it was so funny.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 18 hours ago

freedom fries energy

[–] [email protected] 48 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

But Iran, Iran so far away

Iran, I couldn't get away

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 57 points 22 hours ago (6 children)

It's like the whole "Ukraine" vs "the Ukraine" in English that the media did the same thing for. Russian and Ukrainian don't have definite articles. There is no such thing as "the" in either language. The thing they argue over between Russian and Ukrainian is what preposition to use when talking about something in the territory of Ukraine saying 'на украине' (~"na ookrayeenye") versus 'в украине' (~"v ookrayeenye") meaning essentially "on Ukraine" vs "in Ukraine."

Presumed to be a legacy of an assumed origin of the name Ukraine coming from

  • 'у' particle/prefix in certain contexts meaning kind of by/at/of/near
  • and край (~"krai" similar to English "cry") in contexts meaning 'ridge/edge/side,' with its adjective form крайний (~krainee) meaning 'outermost'

so Украина ("Ookrayeenah") under this assumed origin meaning something akin to 'of the outer-edge (of the Russian empire)' kind of like "borderland." It is common place especially with older generations to use на украине instead of в украине, though it also often both get used interchangeably.

That's its own whole mess of history, but US English doesn't have, at all, the historical quirk of "on Ukraine" so it would've always been normal and proper to just say "in Ukraine;" and by making a thing about "Ukraine" vs "the Ukraine" they invented a new problem to then argue about that has no corollary in Russian or Ukrainian to start with.

Probably "the Ukraine" started in English because some anglo dipshit heard the preposition "na" as similar enough to "the" (and la/le for other romance languages if they even knew that) to just assume it was a definite article, and now they won't shut up about it. It's like the origin I heard from a Korean friend that yanks originally made the g*** slur for Koreans because anglos are so unworldly and pig-ignorant they heard "miguk" from Koreans, which literally means "USA/American," and thought it was the Koreans calling themselves the slur, because they assumed "mi" part is like English "me" because, and I can not stress this enough, they are dumb as hell.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

also its funny cuz nobody gets mad at the germans for saying "die Ukraine". In fact theres a bunch of country names in german that get used with a definite article, like die Slowakei, die Turkei, die Schweiz.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

Isn't that just how the language works though? Like, it sounds unnatural to say certain nouns without adding "the" to the front. Spanish does that too, it's why Das Kapital is called El Capital in Spanish but just Capital in English.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 16 hours ago

The g-slur goes back to the Spanish-American War and then the Filipino-American War. Americans in the Philippines thought Filipino languages sounded like "guk guk buk buk" the same way they think Mandarin is "King Kong ling long." It got shortened down to come up with the slur, which became more widespread when the Philippines tried to gain independence.

And because Americans are so racist, they used the same slur against Koreans and Vietnamese as though Asians are all interchangeable. Doesn't surprise me they thought "miguk" was Koreans using the slur in a "Well of course they call themselves that! They recognize the superior white man," kind of way.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 20 hours ago

I pronounce Kyiv so that it rhymes with "shiv".

[–] [email protected] 41 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

If you suspect someone of being ukronazi, spell it in Polish "Kijów" (pronounced something like Keyoov), that would really piss them.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

or look at their tattoos and emblems


I just cycled through the Reuters article linked in the OP body and picture 2/6 is of an azovite National Corps and picture 3/6 are UNA-UNSO nazis, whose members fought in every post-collapse struggle where they could shoot Russians and even fought alongside Salafi-jihadist and Al-Qaeda groups in Chechnya, and whose founding and most prominent members were real pieces of work

none of this is of course mentioned in the captions.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Hey Wikipedia, how's it going?

Occupation: political activist

Chechen War veteran on the side of the Mujahideen

jesus-christ

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 day ago (12 children)

It always annoys me how bent out of shape people get over pronunciation of city and place names in other languages. Some languages have different sounds and thus things are said differently.

The Chinese word for Australia is "Audaliya" and even the frothist of frothers don't go complaining about it (I hope)

[–] [email protected] 35 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

Chinese names for countries are cool. They try to be nice about it when there's more than one set of characters for something that sounds right (America is from the characters for "beautiful country" instead of "mildew country"), but when that's not possible you get really silly like Portugal being named "grape tooth." (There are also countries with literal translations.)

[–] [email protected] 31 points 22 hours ago (14 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago

name for sweden sounds like they're still kinda mad about a very odd war that happened at some point

[–] [email protected] 6 points 14 hours ago

Red Wheat sounds like the title of a kickass video game, a fantastic western novel, a decent 80's action movie and an absolutely horrendous metaphor for menstruation.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

germany
moral land

what the fuck

[–] [email protected] 10 points 15 hours ago

Deutschland

Deutsch

De

{德|dé} (meaning moral or virtuous)

{德国|déguó}

[–] [email protected] 9 points 15 hours ago

These are literal translations of names mostly chosen for sounding at least a little like the country's name in its own language

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›