this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2024
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Like, in a practical sense? Do you have any stories or examples from your life?

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[–] [email protected] 74 points 22 hours ago

The way it has manifested most clearly in the situations I've encountered it is a basic difference in approach to writing and reading as concepts. They don't see writing or reading as a way to communicate, they see it as a puzzle they have to solve by following rules, so that they can return to communicating once the puzzle is out of the way. Unless they're in very casual/online settings, or very motivated to find specific information, they avoid the puzzle because it's annoying.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 22 hours ago (8 children)

I have dyslexia and legitimately didn’t learn how to read until I was about 13 years old. I mean, I got by on memorizing clusters of familiar looking phrases. Vibes-based reading. Oh and lots of cheating and lying about homework.

Two decades later, I still struggle compared to my peers. But I have had the privilege and luck to learn strategies to make up the difference.

I’m also an elementary school teacher. There’s only so hours I can try to teach my students to read. One of the biggest determining factors for reading ability/comprehension is how much vocabulary children are exposed to at an early age (0-4 years old). Reading to young children is crucial for language development, reading ability, and a slue of related skills. I don’t know enough about linguistics to know this for sure, but I’m assuming most of my students have parents with restricted vocabulary. And probably just not talked to enough as babies. Something just has to have affected their kids cognition in pernicious ways. Them getting COVID 8 or 9 times in their lives probably hasn’t helped either.

So the other week with my fifth graders we’re doing intro geometry stuff. I said something like, “A cylinder is just like the rectangular prism. It’s just that its base is a circle.” And like okay, I’ve been trying for half an hour trying to distill the absolute cluster fuck this caused in my students brains.

“It’s similar to this coffee mug. See? It has a circular base and it’s a prism. I know you’re thinking a prism has to look like the rectangular prism. It might be helpful to think of the cylinder as a circular prism.” I said, exasperated.

“What are you even saying?” a child asks rhetorically.

I eventually have to say something like, “Listen, if you can’t understand this it’s a skill issue and kinda cringe.” There’s a million little things that are hard to put into words how utterly dysfunctional some of these kids brains are and will be later in life.

Oh and I have to speak to these children’s parents on the reg, which is its own sort of hell.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 18 hours ago

Tell them prisms are where bad guys go; if they ran a prism, do they want their prismers to be in a cylindrical cell or a rectangular one?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

What’s it like talking with their parents?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 hours ago

Probably like talking to the trolls from the hobbit

[–] [email protected] 7 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Tbh you also about lost me when you started taking about rectangular prisms, too, and I'm a 30-year-old former voracious reader. So. Maybe take it a lil easier on them, and come up with simpler verbiage when introducing new concepts?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I think there is a significant difference in two skill affinities at play here. Vocabulary and spatial visualization are both important to solidifying geometry skills but some people just tend to have a lot of difficulty projecting 3-dimensional shapes in their minds, whether or not the words to describe the concepts are in their lexicon.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 12 hours ago

Avoid prism at all costs

[–] [email protected] 29 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

To be fair, at least personally, I learned the word 'cylinder' long before I learned 'rectangular prism'. Maybe because the latter is usually called a cuboid or box, while there is no simpler word for a cylinder.

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I had a roommate who grew up in a poor farming community. He has dyslexia but the school had no special education funding to address that. As a result he grew up completely illiterate and stayed that way into his 30s. He passively absorbed libertarian ideas from the media he consumed, but lacked the ability to cross-check any of it. I remember him giving me a history lesson from a Call of Duty game.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Jesus I’m so fucking glad that didn’t happen to me.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 21 hours ago

I can talk humanities and social sciences at a graduate level and am comfortable with the physical side of trauma medicine, but STEM subjects are really difficult for me for more or less the same reason. Shitty public/Catholic schooling meant I effectively lost out on a meaningful primary and secondary science and mathematics education. Now I'm a scientific horticulturist because I thought horticulture was a fake science that I could sneak my way into because I'm decent with plants. It isn't though. Outside of ecology, it's the ultimate interdisciplinary physical science. I've had to learn mathematics through analytical trigonometry and calculus but even basic algebra barely makes sense to me. Chemistry and physics are totally lost on me. I spent those preteen/teenage years building an intuitive knowledge base for the subjects that interest me but I feel the effects of an underfunded public school with any kind of super technical field that I never had childhood exposure to. It fundamentally doesn't click.

[–] [email protected] 67 points 23 hours ago (4 children)

That clip of that Kik Streamer fascist Aiden Ross trying to whole-word-read "fascist" and then googling the meaning and then still being puzzled why someone would call Trump that.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 20 hours ago (4 children)

Once, Andrew Tate asked him questions about World War II. I could maybe forgive someone for not knowing that de Gaulle was the leader of France, but the only leader of the major Allies/Axis Powers he knew was Hitler. When asked who the leader of Russia was, he said "I'm guessing Putin's father or grandfather".

[–] [email protected] 40 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Putin's grandpa, Spiridon Ivanovich Putin, was Lenin's and Stalin's cook for some time, an we all know cooks really rule the world.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 19 hours ago
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[–] [email protected] 46 points 22 hours ago

When I first saw this, I laughed my ass off and then cried because this motherfucker is an idol to so many people.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 23 hours ago

Kik Streamer

tory

[–] [email protected] 29 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] [email protected] 68 points 23 hours ago

It means they are easily propagandized to and won't have the critical reading skills to realize it

[–] [email protected] 49 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

They can sound out words and know what most common words mean in isolation but their ability comprehend the meaning of a text is very basic, if present at all. Reading a short story, being able to summarize it and comment on themes, conflicts, character motivations, metaphors, allegory, how they relate to the story or certain characters are generally beyond them. Reading a political article and reading between the lines to get past the writer's bias is completely beyond them (tbf they would never read an article, they would watch a video or look at memes on facebook). That said, they have little to no ability to think critically so whatever authority figures beat into them when they were young becomes their worldview and everything that contradicts it is seen as an attack on them and society.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 17 hours ago

This was what I was going to say. The idea of an author of a text having a bias is alien to a lot of Americans. Like if you say that Harry Potter is a liberal fantasy about not changing anything and defending the status quo, there will be someone telling you "uh no, it says in the book that it's about fighting Voldemort". Just a lack of ability to do anything more than a surface level read.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I had someone I know ask me what was wrong with the Korean PM declaring martial law since he was doing it because of a communist invasion. The article just repeated what he claimed he was doing and this guy hadn't thought about whether that was an accurate statement on his part. Just didn't occur to him that an official statement from a politician could be false.

He's not coincidentally a huge Chud with a lot of beliefs about a (((cabal))) running everything he doesn't like.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

I legit think the only way to save these people is to very carefully word socialist theory in a way that they can understand through facebook level memes. But then you have to worry about the authority figures that actually can read seeing through it. curious-marx I don't know that re-education is actually possible in this case, tbh.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

Reading at a 6th grade level is reading for plot. Just like, what happened? Who was there? More advanced things like subtext, metaphor, and unreliable narrators come later.

I found this online the last time this topic came up: https://www.oxfordonlineenglish.com/english-level-test/reading

Go ahead and read the story, and imagine that a lot of people cannot read and understand it.

There's also this article about how many kids are taught to read badly: https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/ (amusingly, also available as a podcast)

What does it mean practically? Bad things. If you haven't read 1984, give it a go and think about why the authoritarian state benefitted from a diminished language.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (3 children)

so lets go a bit more in depths on the topic, what other lessons did you get out of 1984?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 16 hours ago

Aside from the seminal "Shake It Off" (which itself has been analysed by scholars to death), 1984 shows Taylor Swift's writing prowess with bars such as

"Now we got bad blood/ You know it used to be mad love."

[–] [email protected] 38 points 21 hours ago

what other lessons did you get out of 1984?

that i should sport a mustache if i want to be taken seriously

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

their site design is knocking my reading level down a couple grades

[–] [email protected] 24 points 19 hours ago

Not GDPR compliant, the disagree button just says fuck you you must agree to our cookies to read this plain text

[–] [email protected] 16 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

I don't know how that test compares to grade level. It seems like a test to determine one's CEFR level, 20 correct answers out 20 gave me C1. It doesn't really say what it's based on, but it does encourage you to buy their product.

Ok actually, this seems to suggest B2/C1 is about 6-8th grade level and C1 is 9-12: https://wida.wisc.edu/news/wida-model-online-scale-scores-linked-common-european-framework-reference-cefr

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 23 hours ago

It means they have a difficult time parsing Parenti quotes. They can read it aloud, and they can tell you roughly what it's about, but they have difficulty following and comprehending the argument being made.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Do you have any stories or examples from your life?

A middle school textbook is pretty basic stuff. Think of all problems, blunder, mistakes, accidents, etc happening all over the US every day that are caused by the average American having difficulty understanding anything written at a middle school level or above.

With the rise of the internet along with it's dark side and the expansion of right-wing media - maybe it was enviable that a repulsive republican like Trump would be president not just once but twice. And maybe it's no surprise that huge number of Americans fall prey to conspiracy theories and snake oil salesmen like RFK. A large percentage of Americans hate vaccines and think they cause disease.

My worry is that not only will the problem not get fixed - it will most likely get worse over time. There is a concerted, bipartisan effort to ignore the problem. The GOP likes an uneducated public. Trump even bragged about it. The democrats will remain unwilling to even acknowledge the problem because they think the public will lose faith in American exceptionalism, the American dream, etc.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

Trump even bragged about it

What did Trump say?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] [email protected] 7 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 12 hours ago

At least he loves himself

[–] [email protected] 2 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] [email protected] 40 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (3 children)

"I used ChatGPT Bazinga to write this message"

Sometimes you have to be brought back to reality and realize that the vast, vast majority of USAmericans have not grappled with materialism, thus nearly all the connections they make are like a 6th grader writing out their 5 paragraph essay for the high stakes exam that determines if their school gets funding or not.

US self made brain drain is going to hit the country like a comically large boomerang, it already has essentially.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

brain drain is going to hit the country like a comically large boomerang,

To where?

[–] [email protected] 33 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, even if a person gets an undergrad degree they still have the capitalist brainworms unless they poison them with theory. Reading and writing education in the US is so formulaic as to be worthless. People are taught to follow a small set of rules and if they don't follow the rules, they fail. They are not expected to think. Even so, many people refuse to read or write anything, either paying others to do it for them or just turning in some AI slop without taking a single look at it.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 22 hours ago

And these people are armed to the teeth yikes-3

[–] [email protected] 17 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

How has it or will it impact the US? With America’s money can’t they just attract immigrant intellectual labour with high salaries?

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 day ago

My mom once stated in a FB post that socialism was evil, when I asked her to elucidate "It just is!"

[–] [email protected] 26 points 22 hours ago

I find the OECD's levels of literacy more instructive than grade level. This page has a short definition: https://literacytrust.org.uk/parents-and-families/adult-literacy/what-do-adult-literacy-levels-mean/

pdf page 75 (table 4.5) here has more detailed definitions: https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/publications/reports/2019/11/the-survey-of-adult-skills_d7f1bc16/f70238c7-en.pdf

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